A British Composer Poll

[71 dB]

I am actually quite surprised for the massive number of votes for RVW. He's ok I guess, but he fails to move me in any way, with the exception of the English Folk Song Suite (which I like a lot).  I'm not sure what people see in most of his music, as it never clicks with me despite repeated (and periodic) attempts. I have only one disc of his (with the aforementioned Folk Song Suite). I feel like I should like him (especially as I like the one piece for sure), but it just never seems to come off...

Interesting because I feel the same way. I have to admit I haven't even heard many works by RVW because his music (at least what I have heard) seems to be so "neutral" and doesn't make me interested to explore more. Maybe so many like for that reason? I have noticed that most people tend to like art that is not taken "over the limit".

[Luke]

It goes without saying that to a VW fan the description of him as neutral doesn't fly - at the centre of his output are a group of works of enormous but generally quiet intensity and of a rare coherence in which style, technique, inspiration, imagery and so on are unified to a rare degree and result in music of what is to them (I"m one of 'them') an overwhelming strength of character and beauty. Just to put the opposite view...

[Elgarian]

It goes without saying that to a VW fan the description of him as neutral doesn't fly - at the centre of his output are a group of works of enormous but generally quiet intensity and of a rare coherence in which style, technique, inspiration, imagery and so on are unified to a rare degree and result in music of what is to them (I"m one of 'them') an overwhelming strength of character and beauty. Just to put the opposite view...

I nodded my way through all this. Unquestionably so.

However, I've just realised that this poll was launched in July 2008, just a few weeks before the anniversary of RVW's death, when I seem to recall a not-surprisingly biggish splash: Gramophone magazine did a Vaughan Williams special issue, for instance. So RVW was riding high at that time, and (without in the least suggesting that RVW deserves less) I think those celebrations may shed light on the curious imbalance of these poll results. I see that the phrasing of the question concerns your favourite at this moment. There are times when I'd vote for RVW myself on that basis.

[You know my methods, Watson. Apply them.]

[Lethevich]

However, I've just realised that this poll was launched in July 2008, just a few weeks before the anniversary of RVW's death

Also a time of no little anti-Elgar sentiment on the forum, which has changed in the past two years

[Brahmsian]

I voted Vaughan Williams, however, I could have chosen Elgar.  I like both nearly the same, although I've explored more of VW's music to this point.

[karlhenning]

Yes, Elgar has suffered through no fault of his music.

[karlhenning]

I voted Vaughan Williams, however, I could have chosen Elgar.  I like both nearly the same, although I've explored more of VW's music to this point.

I too voted for Vaughan Williams; in a way it's a matter of volume.  The Elgar concerti are high in my esteem, and I haven't heard a Vaughan Williams concerto to contest them;  but I strongly prefer Vaughan Williams's symphonies to those of Elgar.

[Luke]

Also a time of no little anti-Elgar sentiment on the forum, which has changed in the past two years

Yes, it has, thankfully. I think we know why.

Summer 2008 was also the time when the VW thread was at its most raging and interesting - I've just been rereading the central pages of the thread, from about no 30-ish to about number 37, so far (including my own huge posts to M which he chose to ignore - I wonder why I bother, but I'm quite proud of those posts rereading them, some of my better efforts....).

For me, that sequences of pages - I think it led on to the infamous wind-machine affair, in which M suddenly switched sides and started speaking in favour of VW once he realised there was potential to piss Scarpia off if he did so ;-) - was one of the highlights of the history of GMG.

[Franco]

I have no idea which British composer is my favorite since I don't listen to much from the composers of

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England

But if hard pressed I might choose Walton.

[Scarpia]

Yes, it has, thankfully. I think we know why.

Summer 2008 was also the time when the VW thread was at its most raging and interesting - I've just been rereading the central pages of the thread, from about no 30-ish to about number 37, so far (including my own huge posts to M which he chose to ignore - I wonder why I bother, but I'm quite proud of those posts rereading them, some of my better efforts....).

For me, that sequences of pages - I think it led on to the infamous wind-machine affair, in which M suddenly switched sides and started speaking in favour of VW once he realised there was potential to piss Scarpia off if he did so ;-) - was one of the highlights of the history of GMG.

Yes, I was wondering if you'd remember the famous wind-machine controversy.  I had the impression that I had single-handedly driven you to quit the board in disgust. 

Anyway, when I listen to Vaughan Williams I always remember to skip #1 and #7, and I am in the clear.   I think what is needed is a karaoke version of #7 in which the wind machine is omitted from the recording and you get to add your own wind part. 

[Franco]

I just discovered a British composer who sounds very interesting: George Benjamin.

He does not seem to have written much, but what I've heard appears on first impression to be excellent.

[Luke]

Yes, I was wondering if you'd remember the famous wind-machine controversy.  I had the impression that I had single-handedly driven you to quit the board in disgust.   

Lol - it wasn't you! As I remember it, it was really tedium with M's behaviour that drove me away, which was rooted 1) in his behaviour on that VW thread, and 2) in another notorious affair a couple of months later, over on my thread, with M's response to this post - Harmonicgate! That was when he told me that I shouldn't notate harmonics the way I did, and I had the temerity to show him plenty of examples of Ravel scores (and from other composer) doing precisely the same thing. Which kind of annoyed him, because he tended to want to use Ravel as an example of good orchestral and notational practice. He got a bit nasty, and then when he carried on in the VW thread again, I finally got a bit bored and thought 'I've had enough'. Came back as Sul G a few months later though, for a while.

Anyway, when I listen to Vaughan Williams I always remember to skip #1 and #7, and I am in the clear.   I think what is needed is a karaoke version of #7 in which the wind machine is omitted from the recording and you get to add your own wind part. 

No problem there. 

[karlhenning]

Mercy! I'd nearly forgot aboput Harmonicgate!

[Luke]

Just been rereading it, too - fun, in retrospect, though not at the time, and even quite rewarding. Funny thing is, that it started with M making his little point, but actually that just set me off musing about notation, and I actually found it all quite thought-provoking and stimulating, and it led me to some interesting conclusions, and I even thanked him....but he wasn't happy that I disagreed with him and had the temerity to be able to back up my choices in detail and with examples from the repertoire, so wasn't long before he started with the stay-in-your-ivory-tower, ignore-me, I'm-just-a-poor-professional-bassist-of-vast-experience stuff, and - do you remember? - that thing about how you and I are self-proclaimed geniuses! Happy days!

[Scarpia]

Mercy! I'd nearly forgot aboput Harmonicgate!

I seem to have missed harmonicgate entirely.      I had a few dust-ups with M as well, but the place certainly is a bit dull without him.  To bad he couldn't restrain himself sufficiently to maintain his posting privileges.

[Scarpia]

Interesting because I feel the same way. I have to admit I haven't even heard many works by RVW because his music (at least what I have heard) seems to be so "neutral" and doesn't make me interested to explore more. Maybe so many like for that reason? I have noticed that most people tend to like art that is not taken "over the limit".

Oh lordy.     You have little familiarity with VW, but you assume he must be boring (neutral) and so many of us like him because we are sheep who are unable to deal with music that isn't boring.   I suggest that if you are going to make such infuriating statements, you at least take the time to listen to Vaughan Williams first.   

[karlhenning]

. . . and - do you remember? - that thing about how you and I are self-proclaimed geniuses! Happy days!

Cor, it's not every day one forgets that he's proclaimed himself a genius! ; )

[Scarpia]

Cor, it's not every day one forgets that he's proclaimed himself a genius! ; )

I thought you and M were so chummy.  Wasn't there even a photo in which you looked like reunited twins?

[knight66]

Indeed those were the days. I think it would be true to suggest that he presented himself to Karl as a friend, but then promptly did his puff-adder act.

We were kept very busy then with all that nonsensical behaviour. It was due to those experiences that we modified our approach; so as to stop further such incidences dead in their tracks. At one time we bent over backwards to avoid altering a post; but experience taught us that there is no reasoning with some people and as soon as you see that, stop trying and use sanctions.

As someone wrote to me two days ago....it's only the internet!

Mike

[Elgarian]

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England

Throw rotten tomatoes at me if you will, but coasting along the cycle track by the river this morning, with the warm sunlight glittering on the water, the dappled shade under the trees, and listening to the Enigma Variations though my headphones as I pedalled, it seemed remarkably easy to think in terms of 'this blessed plot', etc.

Of course there are other places where this isle is more septic than sceptred.