Opera Without Visuals

[mn dave]

This might be a fun topic. Who knows?

Which operas work best as pure music?

[Anne]

I think the last act of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, or part of it, has been called a symphony.  I would highly recommend to you Joseph Kerman's book, Opera as Drama.  He has an entire chapter, 19 pages, titled "Opera as Symphonic Poem."

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Opera doesn't necessarily need 'visuals' to be a successful listen. At least for me. And especially for home listening. At home I'd rather sit back in my comfy chair and relax to the music rather than peer for 2-4 hours at a TV monitor. 

At the opera house it's total immersion - no comfy chair anyway so I might as well take a peek.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I think the last act of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, or part of it, has been called a symphony.  I would highly recommend to you Joseph Kerman's book, Opera as Drama.  He has an entire chapter, 19 pages, titled "Opera as Symphonic Poem."

However, if you read what Kerman says in full, he is arguing explicitly against thinking of T+I as a symphony or as any kind of "pure music."

[Anne]

However, if you read what Kerman says in full, he is arguing explicitly against thinking of T+I as a symphony or as any kind of "pure music."

Thank you, Sforzando.  I would not want to mislead someone.  I had another book, may have been from English National Opera series.  A friend borrowed it and didn't replace it.  I have to stop recommending off the top of my head.  My memory is not so good any more.  From now on I will read the source before giving it to someone else. 

[Hector]

Opera doesn't necessarily need 'visuals' to be a successful listen. At least for me. And especially for home listening. At home I'd rather sit back in my comfy chair and relax to the music rather than peer for 2-4 hours at a TV monitor. 

At the opera house it's total immersion - no comfy chair anyway so I might as well take a peek.

I couldn't agree more.

I have, also, sat in the opera house with my eyes closed on many occasions because the antics on stage were unbearable to watch.

[marvinbrown]

Opera doesn't necessarily need 'visuals' to be a successful listen. At least for me. And especially for home listening. At home I'd rather sit back in my comfy chair and relax to the music rather than peer for 2-4 hours at a TV monitor. 

At the opera house it's total immersion - no comfy chair anyway so I might as well take a peek.

  Sometimes, and you didn't hear this from me  , I'll turn the subtitles off and watch an opera on DVD.  I still need the visual aspects but for relaxing I don't want the hassle of having to read the libretto.

  marvin

[mn dave]

So, which ones do you like to, not watch, but listen to?

[marvinbrown]

So, which ones do you like to, not watch, but listen to?

  Well I have Wagner's Ring Cycle memorized by heart.  So I like to play the Levine DVD without subtitles and just watch the action on stage with the music. I feel the same way about Verdi's Aida and Puccini's La Boheme.  For some operas such as R. Strauss' Elektra and Berg's Wozzeck this does not work and a thorough reading of the libretto as I am listening is required. 

  marvin   

[(poco) Sforzando]

  Well I have Wagner's Ring Cycle memorized by heart.  So I like to play the Levine DVD without subtitles and just watch the action on stage with the music. I feel the same way about Verdi's Aida and Puccini's La Boheme.  For some operas such as R. Strauss' Elektra and Berg's Wozzeck this does not work and a thorough reading of the libretto as I am listening is required. 

  marvin   

You are not, however, speaking of any of these operas as "pure music," in the sense that our Greek God implies. You are simply saying you know the librettos to some of these operas well enough that you don't have to follow along with the translations.

[marvinbrown]

You are not, however, speaking of any of these operas as "pure music," in the sense that our Greek God implies. You are simply saying you know the librettos to some of these operas well enough that you don't have to follow along with the translations.

  True.  But it is a totally different experience than following the libretto and concentrating on the text.  At the risk of getting slaughtered by opera enthusiasts I find the experience of turning off the libretto quite enjoyable and liberating- it helps me concentrate more on the music.  If Appollo means just listening to an opera without any knowledge of the plot and characters for the sake of the music, well,  I never do that!  

  marvin

[zamyrabyrd]

This might be strange but I often listened to Madame Butterfly as music. I didn't really think about it until now but maybe the reason are the practically seamless transitions.
One doesn't feel: "OK, now we have the recitatives, aria and caballetta, duets etc." 
La Boheme and Rossini's Barbiere ditto (even with the obvious solos).

ZB

[karlhenning]

I don't think that strange at all, ZB.

[mn dave]

This might be strange but I often listened to Madame Butterfly as music. I didn't really think about it until now but maybe the reason are the practically seamless transitions.
One doesn't feel: "OK, now we have the recitatives, aria and caballetta, duets etc." 
La Boheme and Rossini's Barbiere ditto (even with the obvious solos).

ZB

Good answer! Thanks.

[zamyrabyrd]

I don't think that strange at all, ZB.

Thanks. It's nice to have validation every now and then.

[karlhenning]

Otherwise, we're going to be like, Are you really listening to ballet if you're not watching people dance to it? 

[karlhenning]

I'm doing opera without visuals, even as we speak . . . .

[zamyrabyrd]

Otherwise, we're going to be like, Are you really listening to ballet if you're not watching people dance to it? 

Been there, done that.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Otherwise, we're going to be like, Are you really listening to ballet if you're not watching people dance to it? 

Balanchine said that if you don't like watching the dancers, you can close your eyes and attend a very nice concert. Nonetheless, I'm convinced that there are ballets that don't reveal their full dimensions unless both choreography and music are experienced. Stravinsky's Agon, for one. (Not that I don't enjoy listening to that one, and frequently. But an entirely new layer is added when the work is seen, to Balanchine's choreography.)

[karlhenning]

(Not that I don't enjoy listening to that one, and frequently. But an entirely new layer is added when the work is seen, to Balanchine's choreography.)

Sure.