Peter Mennin(1923-83)-a Great American Symphonic Composer

[some guy]

To my knowledge, I've never heard a single note of Mennin's work; any suggestions from those who know my taste in music?

My suggestion is that you jettison your taste in music.

I haven't liked any of the Mennin I have heard, and he represents a vein I find repugnant, but even I would say to anyone who hasn't listened to any Mennin to listen to some Mennin.

Early last year, I was in L.A. for CEAIT's Cage bash (the good kind of bash ), so I was driving around in a rental car, which I rarely do, listening to the radio, which I only do if I'm in a rental car. I heard a mid-century orchestral work which I was enjoying. Turned out to be the symphony no. 6 from a composer I hate with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns, Howard Hanson.

Being an enlightened listener and a good friend and father, I shrugged my shoulders and bought a CD of Hanson's 6th for myself when I got back home. I may be prejudiced, but I'm not stupid.

In fact, just spending a few minutes on this thread makes me feel like sampling some more Mennin myself.

In short, Edward, I suggest that you listen to some Mennin. Never mind what. Just listen to some.

[Karl Henning]

My suggestion is that you jettison your taste in music.

I haven't liked any of the Mennin I have heard, and he represents a vein I find repugnant, but even I would say to anyone who hasn't listened to any Mennin to listen to some Mennin.

I like your sense of humor!

[Daverz]

I haven't liked any of the Mennin I have heard, and he represents a vein I find repugnant, but even I would say to anyone who hasn't listened to any Mennin to listen to some Mennin.
[snip]
a composer I hate with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns, Howard Hanson.

I have yet to find Mennin's music interesting enough to rise to the level of repugnant.

Also, what exactly did Howard Hanson do to make you hate him so?

[Karl Henning]

I have yet to find Mennin's music interesting enough to rise to the level of repugnant.

I'm feelin' the love!

[Daverz]

I'm feelin' the love!

I'm definitely not through with him, though.  His music may click at some point.

[some guy]

I like your sense of humor!

[Karl Henning]

I'm definitely not through with him, though.  His music may click at some point.

Intellectually, I know there is such a thing as listeners not 'getting' this or that composer's music. I have no trouble with the theory.

My introduction to Mennin:

I was in, I forget just which: eighth grade? might even have been seventh grade, and I had not been playing clarinet all that long.  I made it into the regional band!  Yes, on balance, I think it may have been that very first time I was in a region band, which is to say, easily my best experience to that time of participating in a musical ensemble.  The recording which was made of that event will not bear it out, but I sure felt as if I had suddenly ascended into the New York Philharmonic.

So in the first place, I was lapping up this experience of what it was like to play with a bunch of peers who knew their way around the instruments.

In addition to what I was by then accustomed to in young-symphonic-band fare (arrangements of the odd movement/number from the classics, arrangements of Broadway show tunes, &c.) in our folders for the region band were two or three pieces by recent (maybe even still living) composers who were not tinpansmiths.  This is no snobbery, cannot be any snobbery, I am simply reporting that excitement and elation which I felt as I was rehearsing these pieces, both (again) the thrill of being in a group, most of whom could play better than I could, and the (perfectly novel for me, at the time) thrill of reading a piece of music whose language, while clearly related to much that I had been playing already, was just as clearly striking out into fresh paths of sonic expression.

So, one of the pieces in our folder that year was Mennin's Canzona for symphonic band. I understand it, now, for a minor work.  (Minor, but still a great little piece.)  At the time, I both simply reveled in its being a cool piece to be a part of playing, and was jazzed that such a piece was written by a fellow whose lifetime and geography overlapped with mine.

The long and the short of this being: intellectually, I can understand that there are listeners who don't twig Mennin. But it is entirely outside of my own experience. From the first that I knew of a composer of the name of Mennin, he was a damned fine sight of a composer in my book.

[Daverz]

I was in, I forget just which: eighth grade? might even have been seventh grade, and I had not been playing clarinet all that long.

I only play the Squeezebox these days.  It doesn't concentrate the attention like playing the clarinet.

[Karl Henning]

So I hear : )

[Karl Henning]

I think that the lack of music for squeezebox reflects one of the truly lamentable blind-spots in the mid-century US symphonists . . . .

[some guy]

What a delightful anecdote, Karl!

[snyprrr]

My suggestion is that you jettison your taste in music.

I haven't liked any of the Mennin I have heard, and he represents a vein I find repugnant, but even I would say to anyone who hasn't listened to any Mennin to listen to some Mennin.

Early last year, I was in L.A. for CEAIT's Cage bash (the good kind of bash ), so I was driving around in a rental car, which I rarely do, listening to the radio, which I only do if I'm in a rental car. I heard a mid-century orchestral work which I was enjoying. Turned out to be the symphony no. 6 from a composer I hate with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns, Howard Hanson.

Being an enlightened listener and a good friend and father, I shrugged my shoulders and bought a CD of Hanson's 6th for myself when I got back home. I may be prejudiced, but I'm not stupid.

In fact, just spending a few minutes on this thread makes me feel like sampling some more Mennin myself.

In short, Edward, I suggest that you listen to some Mennin. Never mind what. Just listen to some.

I've tried with Mennin.

Currently, I only have the CRI disc (Symphonies 3 & 7, Piano Concerto) which I hadn't listened to in a while, and the String Quartet (Vox). I used to have the Albany cd of 5 & 6, and I've heard the NewWorld 8 & 9 many years ago. The first Mennin I heard was No.6 on the Mercury Living Presence album, but when I got the Albany, I just felt like Mennin was like Piston in my book: whatever that means,... both, Mennin specifically, seem to be stuck in the '50s. Schuman, on the other hand, seemed to grow beyond the bombast of the Death of Romanticism/Neo-Classicism.

So I pulled out the CRI. The last time, I listened to No.3, but I just didn't want to go to 'Loud, Brash Symphony Land'. So I felt like I was done with Mennin. Well, I knew that the Piano Concerto was going to be a barn burner, and I remembered not being sooo excited by No.3, so, I went for No.7 (the 'Variations' Symphony).

No.7 really was nice, lots of brass chorales. I am definitely going to recommend this to all. I didn't find it bombastic, and was somewhat surprised by its construction. I find nothing 'wrong' here. Please do give this one another shot.

I will revisit the massive PC (with Ogden), a piece I still feel all the nay-sayers can appreciate. It's a knuckle buster for sure!



btw- someguy,... love that Hanson characterization, haha! Yea, no one should have ever told me that Hanson was 'Nordic' sounding. Well, at least I will know how to get on your nerves in the future, bwaha ha ha ha ha!!

[Karl Henning]

. . . Yea, no one should have ever told me that Hanson was 'Nordic' sounding.

Who?! Who was it told you that??!!

[Cato]

Wow!  Skimming through GMG, I come across comments on Ned Rorem and now Mennin, and my memory takes me back 50+ years to exploring (at the time) modern stuff at the public library in Dayton by David Van Vactor, Andrew Imbrie, Gardner Read, Robert Helps (he looked like a beatnik), George Barati (conductor of the Honolulu Symphony: that detail stuck with me for obvious reasons!),and Gene Gutche' (the best in this list, as I recall).

If you have heard of Mennin, have you also heard of these composers?  Many had a work or two on very rare labels, with the exception of what used to be Composers' Recordings Incorporated (CRI).

[snyprrr]

Wow!  Skimming through GMG, I come across comments on Ned Rorem and now Mennin, and my memory takes me back 50+ years to exploring (at the time) modern stuff at the public library in Dayton by David Van Vactor, Andrew Imbrie, Gardner Read, Robert Helps (he looked like a beatnik), George Barati (conductor of the Honolulu Symphony: that detail stuck with me for obvious reasons!),and Gene Gutche' (the best in this list, as I recall).

If you have heard of Mennin, have you also heard of these composers?  Many had a work or two on very rare labels, with the exception of what used to be Composers' Recordings Incorporated (CRI).

You should contribute to the 'CRI Composers' Thread!

I've been checking out all the cds you've mentioned. I'll have to look into Gutche. Yea, they are the last ones on the current list, and I'm confident I can stop where I'm at (with those three Rorem discs).

btw- I HAVE been drinking too much tea, not RB. I drank some ultra-strong coffee recently which sent me into a caffeine spiral. Thank God that's over... I hope!

[Karl Henning]

Two words, snypsss: Egyptian chamomile

[Mirror Image]

Peter Mennin? Meh....

But seriously, I haven't really explored Mennin's music too much. Any suggestions? I have an Albany recording which I forget which symphonies were on it. I don't recall liking/disliking the music, so I'll have to refresh my memory.

[Cato]

I've been checking out all the cds you've mentioned. I'll have to look into Gutche. Yea, they are the last ones on the current list, and I'm confident I can stop where I'm at (with those three Rorem discs).

A work called Genghis Khan sticks in the memory as worthwhile.

...Robert Helps (he looked like a beatnik),

My memory also brought back more details about Helps: besides sporting a beatnik goatee, he posed on the cover of his record in a torn sweatshirt with his hands on his hips.  I found this odd: why wasn't he better dressed?!  And why the slightly angry sneer?  Did he forget that the photographer was coming for the picture for his album?   

Beatniks, of course, had to look angry and contemptuous of everything!

Unless you were a nice beatnik!  (Note the torn sweatshirt!  And the bongos!)

btw- I HAVE been drinking too much tea, not RB. I drank some ultra-strong coffee recently which sent me into a caffeine spiral. Thank God that's over... I hope!

If it is over, we will not be having as much fun here at GMG!   

[Karl Henning]

Genghis Khan could have benefited from Egyptian chamomile....

[snyprrr]

Two words, snypsss: Egyptian chamomile

I'll check, thanks.



btw Karl... that pic of you... mm... uh... you're wearing headphones and you have your head turned in a way that... forgive me... makes you look like a 'special' person. Don't they ALL wear headphones and have their heads turned in that certain way? It's just not all that flattering. Take some advice from Scots John on how to take pictures!