Peter Mennin(1923-83)-a Great American Symphonic Composer

[Karl Henning]

I get all my best advice from Johnnie!

[Daverz]

I think that the lack of music for squeezebox reflects one of the truly lamentable blind-spots in the mid-century US symphonists . . . .

Not quite the Squeezebox I was thinking of.

[Cato]

Here's the Squeezebox I had in mind:

[not edward]

Well, I finally had the chance to spend a bit of time with the 5th and 7th symphonies (though my listening brain may not be at its best after working nearly 120 hours in the last two weeks). The 5th is certainly the more straightforward work, though I was impressed by the tautness and lack of superfluous material in the toccata-like outer movements--though I'd certainly have guessed it as by an American composer, the Germanic influence was more obvious than I'd have expected. The 7th is much more ambitious and I don't think I've fully got a hang on it after one listen; the rather grim mood and the dense, contrapuntally busy writing reminded me somewhat of Karl Amadeus Hartmann (though it doesn't sound like Hartmann, of course).

[snyprrr]

The 7th is much more ambitious and I don't think I've fully got a hang on it after one listen; the rather grim mood and the dense, contrapuntally busy writing reminded me somewhat of Karl Amadeus Hartmann (though it doesn't sound like Hartmann, of course).

I thought it quite dark, but not bombastic. I think you'll grow into it. Delos, or CRI? Surely the Delos sound must be something.

[cilgwyn]

Listening to Mennin's Fourth Symphony,now. This is the one with singing!   Hope this s/h cd won't freeze. I just got this one & the Maazel recording of Schuman's Seventh,coupled with the Balada Steel Symphony,through the post. A nail biting wait to see if it would play through a rather nasty looking scratch! Luckily,it didn't.......no d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d (etc) interrupting my 'great' (?) American symphony ! That's,if there IS one?!!!
Anyway,according to the booklet,the words for Mennin's Fourth 'The Cycle' were written by the composer. "Oh dear!" I thought,averting my eyes from the proferred text,just in case Peter's another Jim Morrison!! As it happens,this one's a bit of a suprise,in a way! Although I won't be singing it in the bath,this one is actually quite tuneful! Even fans of Howard Hanson (especially his Sea Symphony) might enjoy this one! And this one is supposed to be his weakest!

Sing-a-long-a-Mennin?!! What the blazes came over him? Maybe a bit of relaxation before his next grey,brooding,angry,contrapuntal (or whatever you musicians call it) workout..........and good for him,I say!! In fact,I'm ashamed to say,I actually quite like it & might just put it on again!!

NB: The coupled work by Ginastera is grrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeat,with the bonus of some rather sexy sounding singing. Eat your heart out Mennin!!

Interestingly,this is one of only three choral American symphonies to have come my way. The Howard Hanson,Harris's Fourth (one rather magical movement,the remainder a bit of a mess!! ) & come to think of it,there was a Hovhaness one,with of those mandatory wierd titles of his,and lots of sand and camels!!

The performances on both cds sound pretty good. The Balada is a bit predictable,I suppose (lots of grinding,squealing,dissonant noise),but it's great fun,and...........(continued on page 394 of the Rubbra thread!).

[cilgwyn]

Well,my enthusiasm certainly killed off this thread! (Must keep off the old juice! ). Of course,the problem with the Phoenix release of the Fourth Symphony,is the possibility that the purchaser is going to want to hear more Ginastera,not Mennin!
The performances & sound quality sound very good to my jaded ears. Not having heard of the performers I was expecting a bit of a 'doofer' until something better came along. The soloist in the Ginastera is excellent.

....and going back to 'squeeze boxes',which is what this thread is really about! I recall meeting my first girlfriend at a 'squeeze box' party! I also recall that she wanted me to ride around on the back of her pony & I don't like 'horses'!
All the more reason to dislike them,judging by the news........or develop a taste for 'viande de cheval' (don't speak French,so hope that's right! ).

[Cato]

....and going back to 'squeeze boxes',which is what this thread is really about! I recall meeting my first girlfriend at a 'squeeze box' party! I also recall that she wanted me to ride around on the back of her pony & I don't like 'horses'!
All the more reason to dislike them,judging by the news........or develop a taste for 'viande de cheval' (don't speak French,so hope that's right! ).

Here's the Squeezebox I had in mind:

A review seemed in order!   

It is interesting: how many composers from Mennin's generation established works which are still (at least) fairly well known in the present day?

[some guy]

[H]ow many composers from Mennin's generation established works which are still (at least) fairly well known in the present day?

Maderna
Arnold
Husa
Moret
Piazolla
Foss
Xenakis
Ten Holt
Kraft
Ligeti
Huber
Kelemen
Nono
Berio
Boulez
Malec
Brown
Cerha
Dhomont
Feldman
Henze
Kurtag
Mimaroglu
Tudor
Donatoni
Henry
Parmegiani
Barraque
Druckman
Farquhar
Morricone
Rautavaara
Stockhausen
Crumb
Denisov
Ferrari
Hoddinott
Pousseur
Previn
Sculthorpe
Terterian

[Cato]

Maderna
...
Terterian

Many thanks!  Some of those are unknown to me, others, are just names.

Karel Husa used to be really big 40-50 years ago, the heir to the estate of the quartet of Czech musical gods:Smetana-Dvorak-Janacek-Martinu.

I see he is still alive in his early 90's!

Another question for you "intensive" collectors and concert-goers: is there a classical music database which keeps track on a yearly basis of the live performances of composers and of CD releases?

i.e. if one wanted to know how many Mennin performances took place last year, or how many CD's were released, is there a website or organization keeping track of such things?

[Cato]

Many thanks!  Some of those are unknown to me, others, are just names.

Karel Husa used to be really big 40-50 years ago, the heir to the estate of the quartet of Czech musical gods:Smetana-Dvorak-Janacek-Martinu.

I see he is still alive in his early 90's!

Another question for you "intensive" collectors and concert-goers: is there a classical music database which keeps track on a yearly basis of the live performances of composers and of CD releases?

i.e. if one wanted to know how many Mennin performances took place last year, or how many CD's were released, is there a website or organization keeping track of such things?

YouTube is amazing: my local band performing the Symphony #8 by Peter Mennin

http://www.youtube.com/v/hj05l7oVtfQ

[Karl Henning]

What did you think, Cato? (I've got that recording.)

[Cato]

What did you think, Cato? (I've got that recording.)

Stay tuned!  I hope to hear the entire work - without interruption - tomorrow!

Skimming through Amazon, most of the symphonies are available either new or used: a complete edition could be a job for NAXOS perhaps?

[Daverz]

Listening to the 3rd on Delos.  Does the Naxos open up the sound at all?  I wish I had a treble control.

[Cato]

What did you think, Cato? (I've got that recording.)

Concerning the Peter Mennin Symphony #8

[asin]B0000030ED[/asin]

The symphony is excellent: dynamic to the point of fury at times!  The impending tornado presaged by the photograph on the CD cover is an apt encapsulation of the work.

Only one quibble: I find the Penderecki/Ligeti homage at the beginning unnecessary.  There is a marvelously whirling string section at c. 3 minutes into the work which could have been varied and used as the introduction.

Otherwise, I was impressed!  In the 1960's I heard the Seventh and the Fifth (the latter I believe was conducted by Howard Hanson on the old Mercury label).  Mennin's style struck me as somewhat eclectic: earlier someone here mentioned a comparison with Hartmann and perhaps one could do that. 

For Hartmann I have a greater affinity, but I should explore the other Mennin symphonies in the coming weeks and ponder this a while!   0:)

I will say that my local band, the Columbus Symphony Orchestra, was in better shape 40 years ago! 

And what happened to conductor Christian Badea?  Here is a somewhat recent answer:

During the 2010-11 season, Christian Badea conducted a new production of Don Carlos for the Goteborg Opera which was hailed by the critics as being "world class"  and debuted with the Australian Opera conducting a new production of La Boheme – a triumph with critics and audiences alike. Immediate invitations to return followed through 2013, starting with a new production of  Korngold's Die tote Stadt by the well known movie director Bruce Beresford.

For the 2011-12 season, Christian Badea will conduct the Residentie Orkest of Hague in the opening concerts of the Enescu Festival in Bucharest  and will be a frequent guest of the Bucharest Philharmonic and the National Radio Orchestra. He is conducting a new Carmen in Sweden followed by visits to Denmark and Australia for concerts and opera.

See:

http://www.festivalenescu.ro/index.php?id=86&L=1

[Karl Henning]

Huzzah!

[Cato]

Mentioned earlier is the "anger" heard in the symphonies, especially the later ones.  Karl's use of the term "specific" might seem vague...     ... but "specific" is correct, in the way the works tend to use a very sharp needle inserted into the corpus callosum, rather than chopping you up with an ax!  And there is how Mennin loses a comparison to e.g. Karl Amadeus Hartmann.  Mennin might seem highly emotional, but there is an artificiality about it.  Perhaps that is the "academic" nature of the beasts.

As to a comparison with Copland...I think Copland needed to compose more symphonies for a true comparison, but I would again refuse Mennin the wreath. 

I found this comment of mine from...2008 at the beginning of this topic!

Mennin might seem highly emotional, but there is an artificiality about it.  Perhaps that is the "academic" nature of the beasts.

After refreshing my memory over the next few weeks, I will see if I change my opinion!   

[Karl Henning]

. . . But-to my mind-Mennin is less prolix, more concise, less self-pitying [....]

Yes, in practically every paragraph, he means each note.

[Cato]

Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 12:05:57 PM

And there is how Mennin loses a comparison to e.g. Karl Amadeus Hartmann.  Mennin might seem highly emotional, but there is an artificiality about it.  Perhaps that is the "academic" nature of the beasts.

After refreshing my memory over the next few weeks, I will see if I change my opinion!   

Okay, allow me to argue with myself in a disturbing display of schizophrenia!

Perhaps it is the performances (but I suspect not) or perhaps it is just my changing perspective or perhaps it is the expansion of my ears with regard to the Mennin symphonies....whatever! 

I have revisited the last 3 symphonies and to be sure, my mind went back to Hartmann, but I also began to wonder: Why should Mennin be compared to Hartmann to begin with?

So I find the opinion of 5 years ago harsh and (probably) much too dependent on memories from 40 years earlier!

As of now, I would say that Mennin's symphonies contain a narrative, dramatic power not often found in the works of composers from his generation, and are to be highly recommended!  The "artificiality" which I sensed earlier has disappeared.

So, whoever that "Cato" was in 2008 should be horse-whipped for writing that!   0:)

[Karl Henning]

That's our Cato, rising nobly on the stepping-stones of his dead [earlier] self . . . .