Elliott Carter, 1908-2012

Started by bwv 1080, April 07, 2007, 09:08:12 AM

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bhodges

Quote from: North Star on December 27, 2017, 08:52:05 AM
You need to hear the Pacifica if you like the music (and even if you don't, really).

Joining the chorus of praise for the Pacifica Quartet. And that "Late Works" recording looks mighty tasty...

--Bruce

San Antone

Quote from: Brewski on December 30, 2017, 03:53:25 AM
Joining the chorus of praise for the Pacifica Quartet. And that "Late Works" recording looks mighty tasty...

--Bruce

+1 Pacifica, but also the Arditti for the SQ.  That late works recording is really good (and as noted already contains some previously unavailable works), I've enjoyed it very much.

arpeggio

Quote from: Brewski on December 30, 2017, 03:53:25 AM
Joining the chorus of praise for the Pacifica Quartet. And that "Late Works" recording looks mighty tasty...

--Bruce

I got the recording and it tastes great.

blablawsky

Quote from: Mandryka on May 24, 2014, 10:33:08 PM
The New York premier of the 4th quartet by The Composers Quartet is on symphonyshare. I think it's wonderful. If you want it and can't get to it then let me know and I'll let you have the files.

I don't think the 4th quartet is so nasty - to use snyprr's word. In the end all the voices are singing the same song! I can see the connection between the quartet and Night Fantasies. For Night Fantasies I like Rosen very much.

Anyway the 4th quartet is no more nasty than Gotterdammerung. Or Beckett's Happy Days.
Hi Mandryka, do you still have the premier of the 4th quartet? And possibly a transfer of the Composers' SQ version of the third quartet? The links on symphonyshare are not working anymore.

wolftone

I came across a file supposed to be a recording of Ian Pace and the Arditti Quartet playing Carter's Quintet for Piano and String Quartet. I can't find any info on this recording on google. Does anybody have more info on this recording? I know there's another recording with Ursula Oppens and the Arditti (Mode 108); it is different from the recording in question. Carter's official website doesn't say anything about it either, so maybe it's a live recording?

North Star

Quote from: wolftone on February 22, 2018, 08:05:01 AM
I came across a file supposed to be a recording of Ian Pace and the Arditti Quartet playing Carter's Quintet for Piano and String Quartet. I can't find any info on this recording on google. Does anybody have more info on this recording? I know there's another recording with Ursula Oppens and the Arditti (Mode 108); it is different from the recording in question. Carter's official website doesn't say anything about it either, so maybe it's a live recording?

Perhaps it's a live recording from the concert mentioned here:
QuoteIn October 2001 the Arditti Quartet and Ian Pace gave the premiere of Walter Zimmermann's new piano quintet De Umbris Idearum in Graz, Austria and they performed the Quintet by Carter at Ars Music Festival in March 2002. In September 2002 he appeared in 3 concerts with the Ardittis at Vevey, Switzerland
http://www.firenzesuonacontemporanea.it/en/festival/2013/20-september-9pm.html
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Mandryka

#1526
Quote from: blablawsky on January 11, 2018, 08:46:01 AM
Hi Mandryka, do you still have the premier of the 4th quartet? And possibly a transfer of the Composers' SQ version of the third quartet? The links on symphonyshare are not working anymore.

Of course I have them! I have them on 3 hard drives and an external backup! I'll sort it either tomorrow or, if not, over the weekend.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darĂ¼ber muss man schweigen

wolftone

Quote from: North Star on February 22, 2018, 08:45:24 AM
Perhaps it's a live recording from the concert mentioned here:http://www.firenzesuonacontemporanea.it/en/festival/2013/20-september-9pm.html
Don't know why I missed that. The absence of coughing makes me think the file is not a live recording, but that link seems to be the most likely answer.

Quote from: Mandryka on February 22, 2018, 12:15:33 PM
Of course I have them! I have them on 3 hard drives and an external backup! I'll sort it either tomorrow or, if not, over the weekend.
I'm looking forward to this! I'm hoping this is the best rendition of the quartet (as is the Composers Quartet's recording of the 1st SQ).

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: snyprrr on May 27, 2014, 07:42:47 AM
Symphony of 3 Orchestras (1976)

Carter's best 15 minutes? I'm really enjoying this hidden gem.

I've been listening to this, Boulez/NYPO (the only recording!), original LP issue.

It's a terrific piece, fascinating sound and structure, really pulls me in and doesn't outstay its welcome. One strange thing though: it's recorded on a very low level, so you really have to boost the volume to get any presence. I wonder: was this forced by the spatial issues involved? and does the CD reissue have more oomph?

At any rate, there should really be more recordings of this. I could see audio engineers wanting to take it on as a challenge, to get that whole complex canvas up there in glorious sound.

Meanwhile, more Carter listening: two song cycles, A Mirror on which to Dwell and In Sleep, in Thunder. My early impression is that Carter's style really does not fit vocal music very well. It's fine to have instruments chatting, screeching and yowling away, but when people do it...maybe my ears just haven't adjusted yet. Anyone else have problems with Carter's vocal works?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

wolftone

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on March 01, 2018, 08:22:47 AM
Meanwhile, more Carter listening: two song cycles, A Mirror on which to Dwell and In Sleep, in Thunder. My early impression is that Carter's style really does not fit vocal music very well. It's fine to have instruments chatting, screeching and yowling away, but when people do it...maybe my ears just haven't adjusted yet. Anyone else have problems with Carter's vocal works?
I agree with you. An aspect that also contributes to what I perceive to be a lack of integration between voice and other instruments in some of Carter's vocal works is that the words are so easily discernible, whereas the instruments are experienced with more focus on their sound, rather than the semantic meaning they could refer to. Of course, at least according to Carter, there are anthropomorphic characteristics attributed to the instruments in many of his pieces, but these are expressed in terms of sound, and do not usually directly refer to semantics. It seems to me to be a bit of a missed opportunity that when he directly used language (which he drew so much inspiration from), he did not maximize its expressive capacity in relation to the whole of the work, but left some of it isolated from the rest of the composition.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: wolftone on March 01, 2018, 09:52:29 AM
I agree with you. An aspect that also contributes to what I perceive to be a lack of integration between voice and other instruments in some of Carter's vocal works is that the words are so easily discernible, whereas the instruments are experienced with more focus on their sound, rather than the semantic meaning they could refer to.

Nicely put, especially the bit about semantics. For me this seems to be a "Carter problem" specifically - I have no trouble enjoying vocal modernism as embodied in works like Pierrot Lunaire or Wozzeck.

That said, listening to the works did plant the seed of intrigue in my mind, and I'll probably go back and try to figure out what makes them tick.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

greg

So, uh...

I was dreaming, but on the verge of waking up this morning. And I asked myself the question, "Is Elliott Carter still alive?" I had completely forgotten whether he was or not, since it had been many years since I even gave his music a thought.

So my mind guessed, "He died in 2012." After waking up, I go on my phone and look up when he died. 2012.

Pretty sure I never explicitly memorized the fact, but heard the news at the time when it happened. So sounds like a hidden fact stored away that somehow popped up, but also my intuition weirds me out sometimes at its accuracy.

Anyways, not really anything about his music, just wanted to share.  :P
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: greg on March 21, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
So, uh...

I was dreaming, but on the verge of waking up this morning. And I asked myself the question, "Is Elliott Carter still alive?" I had completely forgotten whether he was or not, since it had been many years since I even gave his music a thought.

So my mind guessed, "He died in 2012." After waking up, I go on my phone and look up when he died. 2012.

Pretty sure I never explicitly memorized the fact, but heard the news at the time when it happened. So sounds like a hidden fact stored away that somehow popped up, but also my intuition weirds me out sometimes at its accuracy.

Anyways, not really anything about his music, just wanted to share.  :P

I appreciate this post. My memory does that to me, too.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Ainsi la nuit

I feel such a powerful connection to Carter's music at the moment. I've gone through most of his works now - not everything is accessible via Spotify, but definitely most of it - and there's just so much to discover in his complete output. The chamber works are intense, witty and acerbic in their expression. I'm currently listening to the Pacifica Quartet's recording of the 1st string quartet and it's just out of this world good! Their recordings might just become my new favourites...

I tend to prefer the later works (an impossibly much-meaning word with this composer...) but I certainly have a soft spot for the "hard core" early Carter as well - and also for the quasi-populist works of his even earlier days. It's just all so well-crafted.

It's sometimes a little hard to articulate what exactly is it about Carter's music that I love so much. But some time ago, as I was listening to the Oboe Concerto, I just had a sudden thought: it tickles my brain in a way that I need and which no other music is able to do. And that's how all music I love works, when I really think about it! When a composer gives me something that I need but can't get elsewhere, they become essential figures in my life. That's certainly happened to Carter - among many, many others of course.

vers la flamme

Elliott Carter's music is just beginning to click for me these days. I've been listening to a disc of Oliver Knussen conducting the London Sinfonietta in three major orchestral works: the Violin Concerto, the Concerto for Orchestra, and the Three Occasions for orchestra. I don't know much about Carter's extensive body of works, but from what I gather, these are from an early-mid period in his career...?

I feel like he is an exquisite craftsman and that his music is characterized by a kind of symmetry and balance that is somewhat rare in the post-war avant-garde. Yet still much of his music is extremely dense to me and I feel like I'm just barely beginning to crack the surface.

Being as clueless as I am about mid-to-late 20th century music (I'm a new convert), can anyone explain to me what makes Carter's harmonic language sound the way it does? Does he compose in a freely atonal language? Does he use 12-tone serialism? Polytonality? Micro-tonality? Is it safe to just call it atonal and be done with it?

Anyway, there is plenty of rich color and texture in his music. Really beginning to appreciate it all.

SymphonicAddict

The only work that I can say "I like/enjoy" of this composer is the SQ 1. His symphonies are not my cup of tea. I should try further works by this composer. There could be more surprises than expected.

vers la flamme

^Have you perhaps heard the Pacifica Quartet recording of his 1st quartet, or maybe the Juilliard? Both are items that I'm looking at.

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The Juilliard Quartet recordings of Anton Webern's string quartet works are so fantastic that I think they'd excel with Carter's quartets too, but I have yet to listen to much of it yet. The Pacifica Quartet I've listened to bits and pieces of and really enjoyed, plus I love their Shostakovich cycle. Apparently, they knew the composer too, well enough to take a picture with him, anyway.

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: vers la flamme on August 11, 2019, 02:41:37 PM
^Have you perhaps heard the Pacifica Quartet recording of his 1st quartet, or maybe the Juilliard? Both are items that I'm looking at.

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The Juilliard Quartet recordings of Anton Webern's string quartet works are so fantastic that I think they'd excel with Carter's quartets too, but I have yet to listen to much of it yet. The Pacifica Quartet I've listened to bits and pieces of and really enjoyed, plus I love their Shostakovich cycle. Apparently, they knew the composer too, well enough to take a picture with him, anyway.

I have the quartets on Sony, not the Pacifica one. I haven't explored the other quartets yet, but I do intend to do it so in the near future.

North Star

The Pacifica recordings are amazing, the Juilliards give me an impression that they struggle more with the music, in a way that doesn't appeal to me.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

vers la flamme

Quote from: North Star on August 11, 2019, 03:31:41 PM
The Pacifica recordings are amazing, the Juilliards give me an impression that they struggle more with the music, in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

Noted. I'll keep your thoughts in mind when listening, see if I can hear what you mean. I'm not very familiar with the music and might not pick up on something like that.