Elliott Carter, 1908-2012

[Leo K.]

Can anyone explain to me what makes Carter's harmonic language sound the way it does? Does he compose in a freely atonal language? Does he use 12-tone serialism? Polytonality? Micro-tonality? Is it safe to just call it atonal and be done with it?

Perhaps one way to put Carter's technique regarding harmony is as follows:

"Carter uses harmony as structure rather than as function: as a way to separate the instruments by giving them different intervals, using a single chord to generate the intervals, and/or by using chords as markers during the piece.  He was never a twelve-tone composer (in the way another great modernist, Anton Webern, was) but a post-harmonic composer, one who avoided the entire convention of harmonic preparation and resolution."

from
https://www.the-solute.com/elliott-carter-the-last-modernist/

For example, in his Triple Duo (1982) "each duo is characterized by its own repertory of intervals: minor and major thirds, tritone, and major seventh for the winds; minor second, perfect fourth, minor sixth, and minor seventh for the strings." - David Schiff

Obviously it's pretty complicated!

[vers la flamme]

Perhaps one way to put Carter's technique regarding harmony is as follows:

"Carter uses harmony as structure rather than as function: as a way to separate the instruments by giving them different intervals, using a single chord to generate the intervals, and/or by using chords as markers during the piece.  He was never a twelve-tone composer (in the way another great modernist, Anton Webern, was) but a post-harmonic composer, one who avoided the entire convention of harmonic preparation and resolution."

from
https://www.the-solute.com/elliott-carter-the-last-modernist/

For example, in his Triple Duo (1982) "each duo is characterized by its own repertory of intervals: minor and major thirds, tritone, and major seventh for the winds; minor second, perfect fourth, minor sixth, and minor seventh for the strings." - David Schiff

Obviously it's pretty complicated!

Now that I am getting to know the String Quartet No.3 (I'm just finally purchasing the Carter quartets some 8 months after writing in this thread that I would!) I think I understand this better. It seems to use a similar system of harmonic organization. There are two duos which each play from a selection of "characters", four for duo 1, six for duo 2. Each so-called character has each a characteristic interval and a tempo/articulation marking, eg. Andante espressivo w/ minor 6th; Maestoso w/ perfect 5th. The duos never play in sync with each other per se, but play different pairings of the possible characters. So the harmonic language is all mostly incidental, and the focus is more on relationships between intervals than on chords or any kind of "real" vertical harmony. Quite fascinating, I think!

Anyway, this is a mid-period work and I'm really curious to hear some of the later works. I listened to the Clarinet Quintet the other day, and I'm listening to the Cello Concerto now. Both are great, and not too challenging at all. Much simpler than the quartet I described. But still wonderfully colorful and angular.

Carter is an exciting composer. As user Ainsi la nuit said above, "it tickles my brain in a way that I need and which no other music is able to do." Very true! It's oddly satisfying music.

[not edward]

Anyway, this is a mid-period work and I'm really curious to hear some of the later works. I listened to the Clarinet Quintet the other day, and I'm listening to the Cello Concerto now. Both are great, and not too challenging at all. Much simpler than the quartet I described. But still wonderfully colorful and angular.

Anything from about 1990 and on is "late Carter", so there's a lot to try. There's something very Haydnesque to the way it manages to be playful without compromising its seriousness. To my mind particular standouts from that period are Symphonia, Boston Concerto, the piano concerto Interventions, the Clarinet Quintet and some of the late song cycles, but there's very few weak links there.

John Taverner once made a rather perceptive remark about late Carter: that he ridded modernism of its angst.

[vers la flamme]

Anything from about 1990 and on is "late Carter", so there's a lot to try. There's something very Haydnesque to the way it manages to be playful without compromising its seriousness. To my mind particular standouts from that period are Symphonia, Boston Concerto, the piano concerto Interventions, the Clarinet Quintet and some of the late song cycles, but there's very few weak links there.

John Taverner once made a rather perceptive remark about late Carter: that he ridded modernism of its angst.

I'm assuming you mean Tavener rather than Taverner, I'm sure Carter's music would have been plenty angsty for the latter But I might be able to see what he means by that. There is something cool and calculated about Carter's music, sans Boulezian ultraviolence. I had thought of Haydn earlier listening to the 3rd string quartet, thinking about his exquisite craftsmanship in the genre.

Thanks for the recs! I actually have Symphonia coming to me in the mail now, the DG recording, I found a good deal on it. And I'm thinking of getting a 2CD on Bridge with a smattering of his late music.

[JBS]

Bumping this post up because the CD is very worth noticing..

To be released on Aug. 11:

[asin]B072K3PLCX[/asin]

1 Interventions (2007) for piano and orchestra*†
2 Dialogues (2003) for piano and chamber orchestra*‡
3 Dialogues II (2010) for piano and chamber orchestra*‡
4 Soundings (2005) for orchestra*†
5–7 Two Controversies and a Conversation (2011) for piano, percussion and chamber orchestra*-‡
8 Instances (2012) for chamber orchestra†
9–20 Epigrams (2012) for piano trio* **

Pierre-Laurent Aimard, piano*
Isabelle Faust, violin **
Jean-Guihen Queyras, cello **
Colin Currie, percussion -

Birmingham Contemporary Music Group ‡
BBC Symphony Orchestra †
Oliver Knussen, conductor

[vers la flamme]

Bumping this post up because the CD is very worth noticing..

I've been strongly considering this one, too. I like what I've heard, sounds quite accessible to me.

[Mandryka]

I've been strongly considering this one, too. I like what I've heard, sounds quite accessible to me.

It's worth hearing, some music not available elsewhere - like the 12 epigrams for violin and piano, succinct like Webern.

[Mandryka]

What do the Carterians think of the 5th quartet?

[not edward]

Just acquired the first new all-Carter disc in a few years, a follow-up to the Swiss Chamber Soloists excellent 100th birthday recital on Neos.

[asin]B08NDXG282[/asin]

It doesn't fill any major gaps in the discography (I think the only major works yet to be recorded are five of the late song cycles), though there's a first appearance on disc of the first movement of the incomplete Sonatina for Oboe and Harpsichord, with Heinz Holliger. I was also rather more taken with this performance of Nine by Five than the original recording by the Slowind Quintet, and there's a nice reading of the late (and very short) String Trio as well.

Also on the disc: another Eight Etudes and a Fantasy, the Poems of Louis Zukofsky and a couple of miniatures. My verdict: a useful addition to the catalogue for Carter completists, but nothing to get excited about.

[ritter]

Interesting, thanks.

I hadn't seen that release. I should make a list of what works of Carter I still need to explore (and have been recorded).

[Mandryka]

The Carter I've been exploring is In Sleep, In Thunder on the above CD. It's a piece which seems to grow on me, gets more interesting each time I go back to it.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The Carter I've been exploring is In Sleep, In Thunder on the above CD. It's a piece which seems to grow on me, gets more interesting each time I go back to it.

I've got that disc, though I mainly listen to the Triple Duo on it. I posted my discontent with Carter's vocal works a couple pages back. Maybe I should give them a try again.

[Leo K.]

Carter's Three Occasions for Orchestra is one of the greatest things I've heard. Wow. (Conducted by Oliver Knussen)

[ritter]

Carter's Three Occasions for Orchestra is one of the greatest things I've heard. Wow. (Conducted by Oliver Knussen)

Indeed! I must revisit those (I also have the Knussen recording). I had the privilege of seeing the Three Occasions live here in Madrid in 1997, with the London Symphony conducted by none other than Pierre Boulez. The following evening, the same forces perfomed Carter's Symphony of Three Orchestras! 

[Leo K.]

Indeed! I must revisit those (I also have the Knussen recording). I had the privilege of seeing the Three Occasions live here in Madrid in 1997, with the London Symphony conducted by none other that Pierre Boulez. The following evening, the same forces perfomed Carter's Symphony of Three Orchetsras! 

WOW I would have been in heaven to hear Boulez conduct those live!!

[Alex Bozman]

Indeed! I must revisit those (I also have the Knussen recording). I had the privilege of seeing the Three Occasions live here in Madrid in 1997, with the London Symphony conducted by none other that Pierre Boulez. The following evening, the same forces perfomed Carter's Symphony of Three Orchetsras! 

The Symphony of Three Orchestras is one of my favourite Carter pieces, would love to see it live. Though I did see Knussen conducting the Symphonia at the Bridgewater Hall.

[ritter]

The Symphony of Three Orchestras is one of my favourite Carter pieces, would love to see it live. Though I did see Knussen conducting the Symphonia at the Bridgewater Hall.

Knussen doing the Symphonia must have been quite something! I saw it here in Madrid (the Spanish National Orchestra conducted by Diego Masson).

Cross-posted from the WAYLTN thread:

Oliver Knussen conducts the London Sinfonietta in Elliott Carter's Three Occasions for Orchestra.


Great stuff! (hat tip to Leo K.)...

EDIT:

And now revisiting the first work by Carter I ever listened to, the wonderful Oboe Concerto (Holliger / Boulez / EIC).

[Mirror Image]

Sounds like I'm going to have to listen to Carter's Three Occasions for Orchestra! Thanks for the heads-up, Leo! And Rafael, that sounded like an amazing concert.

[Leo K.]

Sounds like I'm going to have to listen to Carter's Three Occasions for Orchestra! Thanks for the heads-up, Leo! And Rafael, that sounded like an amazing concert.

I hope you enjoy - I also enjoyed his 5th String Quartet yesterday, but there is always something special with Carter's orchestral writing, it dazzles!

[Mirror Image]

I hope you enjoy - I also enjoyed his 5th String Quartet yesterday, but there is always something special with Carter's orchestral writing, it dazzles!

Thanks, Leo. I did enjoy it for sure. I posted in the 'Listening' thread that it sounded like what if Berg had lived well into the post-war era. Another Carter work that impresses me to no end is his Piano Sonata. Such a marvelous work. I need to let his SQs sink in some more --- they're quite complex.