With Classical Recording Dead...

[Don]

Taxplayers's money is sponsoring the War in Iraq, i doubt that majority of the people wanted that.

Great idea.  Citizens should only pay for products and services they don't want.

[Que]

I think classical music (Western art music) has a bright future ahead.
The recording industry is thriving, with all those small, specialized labels. Very interesting and beautiful things are issued every day.

In fact, in my impression, more attention is paid to getting a good recording. In the old days the majors just let a famous performer record the famous mainstream works and that was that. Now small record companies seek and find new talent and issue carefully prepared and programmed recordings. All those issues of early music, less know composers, HIP recordings, and modern music are a good examples of that.

And I'm glad to say the classical music scene in the "Old World" (Europe) has reinvented itself: the latest surge in Italian early music and baroque ensembles, for example. And the whole HIP "movement"! 
As far as new "customers" for this music, I'm not worried. In the Western world there is a whole new generation of highly educated young people, who are bound to look for more in life: culture. The demand for cultural facilities is on the rise in the Netherlands in any case.

Also there will be a vast new reservoir of new classical music consumers in Asia. Interest in classical music in Japan has been considerable for years. What if interest in huge potentail markets as China and India rises?
I think this will be enough to keep us going for decades/centuries!

Q

[Harry Collier]

I'm a little less high, having just gone to a concert downtown. At intermission my family and I stood up and looked around; my father noted, "Twenty years from now, nearly all the people in the audience won't be here. As in, on the planet."

But has it ever been any different? I remember (dimly) my teenage years at school; there were around 110 pupils in my year and, as I recollect, only 5-10 of them showed any interest whatsoever in classical music. I, at the tender age of 16 or so used to go to classical music concerts. But few people from my school ever turned up (even when the concert was at the school itself) and I was surrounded by grey heads.

[71 dB]

Classical music does not have the huge marketing costs popular music has. No expensive music videos are made to sell it. So, a million copies sold may be okay for a popular music CD but classical music labels are happy when "only" 20,000 copies are sold. Classical music is a marginal thing but it's stronger than any other form of music. Beethoven will be listened in 2200. How about Madonna, Elvis, Miles Davis or Michael Jackson? 

[Grazioso]

But has it ever been any different? I remember (dimly) my teenage years at school; there were around 110 pupils in my year and, as I recollect, only 5-10 of them showed any interest whatsoever in classical music. I, at the tender age of 16 or so used to go to classical music concerts. But few people from my school ever turned up (even when the concert was at the school itself) and I was surrounded by grey heads.

Indeed, when have masses of young people ever been interested in something like classical music? That's like expecting throngs of middle-school students to carry around dog-eared copies of King Lear--for fun, not for class. Classical music suffers from an image problem (stuffy, boring elevator music for old farts and rich socialites--not exactly things a young person wants to associate with) that could perhaps be rectified, but it will always be sophisticated music that demands some attention, patience, and critical listening to appreciate fully. How many kids ever evince those traits in any sustained way?

Classical recording is only "dead" if you make the fallacy of thinking the "majors" are still the majors. Sure, EMI, Decca, DG, etc. have incredible back catalogs, but their day in the sun is long over, and, iirc, the big boom they enjoyed in the 80's and early 90's was from reissuing all their old stuff on CD for the first time, as collectors re-purchased their collections on the new format. Those labels are the minors now. It's an amazing time to be a classical fan, thanks to all the real major labels: Naxos, Chandos, BIS, Hyperion, etc.

[Todd]

Beethoven will be listened in 2200. How about Madonna, Elvis, Miles Davis or Michael Jackson?

I wouldn't be surprised if Miles Davis is listened to in 2200.  Maybe Elvis, too.  Of course, I'll never know.

and, iirc, the big boom they enjoyed in the 80's and early 90's was from reissuing all their old stuff on CD for the first time

That was part of the boom, and it helped fund a huge number of new recordings – far more than now.  If you can find older Gramophones (or other magazines), take a look at the new releases section – the majors were cranking out new recordings at fast pace and the independent labels were putting out fewer titles. 

[dtwilbanks]

Classical music does not have the huge marketing costs popular music has. No expensive music videos are made to sell it. So, a million copies sold may be okay for a popular music CD but classical music labels are happy when "only" 20,000 copies are sold. Classical music is a marginal thing but it's stronger than any other form of music. Beethoven will be listened in 2200. How about Madonna, Elvis, Miles Davis or Michael Jackson? 

I don't know about Madonna and Jackson, but I assume Elvis and Miles will be heard in 2200. If anyone's around to listen that is, he said gloomily. 

[dtwilbanks]

I wouldn't be surprised if Miles Davis is listened to in 2200.  Maybe Elvis, too.  Of course, I'll never know.

Ha. I posted the above before reading this.

[Harry]

Classical music will survive everything, it did allready over hundreds of years, and will continue to do so!
The big majors will license all there recorded music to Brilliant and earn a lot of extra money with it, the smaller labels have allready filled the niches, and will continue to do so. The new majors are Naxos and Brilliant, and Brilliant will within two or three years be the biggest producer and distributor of classical music, and Naxos will compare to them as a dwarf.
So never fear my friends, all will be well within the state of Holland.

[Steve]

I say it's a terrible idea. 

As to whether taxpayers would support it, it depends.  Some areas may have greater support than others.  In the US, this generally falls to states and local governments, but given limited budgets, I'd say these levels of government should focus on other things - you know, true public goods.  Roads, bridges, schools, etc.  Supporting "The Arts" should be low on the agenda.  If a particular level of government is flush with cash, and the taxpayers' support, then public funding makes sense.

Every time I go to a classical music concert I'm struck by the average age and appearance of relative affluence of the patrons.  Why on earth should all taxpayers be asked to support something that the comparatively wealthy enjoy?  That's absurd.  I suppose one could try to argue that by making it "free" that a broader audience would become interested in the music, but I'd like to see some type of evidence from somewhere that supports that.  (I should point out that cheap tickets can be had for around $20 locally, so it's not at all expensive to attend concerts in at least some places.)  I'd also like to know why that would be a laudable goal.  Should government be in the business of forming the artistic tastes of its citizens? 

Also, why only classical music?  Why not indie rock or jazz or pop music?  While I prefer classical music (and jazz) to pop and rock, does that mean it's somehow intrinsically better, or at least more deserving of public funds?  I can't see how.  If anything, I think "Arts" funding by government should be reduced, and that includes funding for venues, unless, again, funds are plentiful and more important issues are taken care of.

While I agree with your statement that classical music is not 'intrinsically' superior to other genres of music, but I would reaxamine your conclusion about government support. I am not advocating that the government supsidize the earnings of recording companies or artists, but rather that that it increase its support for the many nonprofit organizations, such as orchestras and opera halls, which provide the venue in which artists can perform.

More important issues to be taken care of?

Losing touch with our historical and artistic heritage doesn't, and should not take a backseat to much.

[dtwilbanks]

Classical music will survive everything, it did allready over hundreds of years, and will continue to do so!
The big majors will license all there recorded music to Brilliant and earn a lot of extra money with it, the smaller labels have allready filled the niches, and will continue to do so. The new majors are Naxos and Brilliant, and Brilliant will within two or three years be the biggest producer and distributor of classical music, and Naxos will compare to them as a dwarf.
So never fear my friends, all will be well within the state of Holland.

So, nothing but second-rate orchestras and old recordings? (Playing devil's advocate here.)

[mahlertitan]

Great idea.  Citizens should only pay for products and services they don't want.

if you think about how government spends the tax money, you're right. Just a while ago, they built a park in Seattle, with modern art works in it, i doubt many people even knew about that; even if they knew about it, i doubt they really wanted it.

[dtwilbanks]

if you think about how government spends the tax money, you're right. Just a while ago, they built a park in Seattle, with modern art works in it, i doubt many people even knew about that; even if they knew about it, i doubt they really wanted it.

I love it when they build shit that I could care less about with my tax money. Like a new baseball stadium.

[Harry]

So, nothing but second-rate orchestras and old recordings? (Playing devil's advocate here.)

You are as so many mistaken about that notion.
There is nothing second rate with both labels, and there is nothing wrong with old recordings.
Naxos and Brilliant both release mostly good and new recordings, as many on this forum will confirm.
And with first rate musicians.

[dtwilbanks]

You are as so many mistaken about that notion.
There is nothing second rate with both labels, and there is nothing wrong with old recordings.
Naxos and Brilliant both release mostly good and new recordings, as many on this forum will confirm.
And with first rate musicians.

Good to know. That's not the impression I had obviously.

[Harry]

Good to know. That's not the impression I had obviously.

Well maybe listening and reviewing classical cd's for 35 years is counting for something right!

[dtwilbanks]

Well maybe listening and reviewing classical cd's for 35 years is counting for something right!

I think you're keeping the classical CD industry in business all on your own, Harry.

[Michel]

Also, why only classical music?  Why not indie rock or jazz or pop music?  While I prefer classical music (and jazz) to pop and rock, does that mean it's somehow intrinsically better, or at least more deserving of public funds?  I can't see how.  If anything, I think "Arts" funding by government should be reduced, and that includes funding for venues, unless, again, funds are plentiful and more important issues are taken care of.

Hear Hear!

[Harry Collier]

If you can find older Gramophones (or other magazines), take a look at the new releases section – the majors were cranking out new recordings at fast pace and the independent labels were putting out fewer titles. 

Well, back in the 50s and 60s when I began assembling my collection of recordings, there was only DGG, EMI, Decca ... and a few others. We had little choice. You wanted a Handel opera? Tough! There were few independents (Saga, Vox and a few others) but they had little distribution clout. You wanted the Beethoven violin concerto? Choice of six available at the time you wanted to purchase, all at full price. How many recordings of the Beethoven violin concerto, Dvorak New World Symphony, Beethoven Op 131 quartet, Handel Rinaldo, Mozart K488 piano concerto were sold in 1935? 1955? 1975? 2005? I suspect the answer is: 2005 always wins! And that's not to mention all the stuff that was never on offer 50-70 years ago.

[Todd]

More important issues to be taken care of?  Losing touch with our historical and artistic heritage doesn't, and should not take a backseat to much.

Yes, more important issues.  There are many.  And losing government funding does not mean "losing touch" with artistic heritage.  Not at all; your statement implies false choices.