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71 dB:

--- Quote from: greg on November 25, 2021, 03:40:38 PM ---INFP maybe? lol
What is the reason for you to prefer unemployment?
I only have a career for money. I'd also prefer unemployment, but have money- the problem is being unable to care about what other people want, enough to dedicate 40 hours a week to it. Even entrepreneurs have a boss- the market itself. So it's just an illusion, you are subject to doing what others want regardless, because that's how money works, unless you are a thief and can get away with it. It's kinda hopeless tbh, even if I could have my dream job as a composer, I'd probably grow to hate it because I'm only composing because others are requesting me to, and have certain expectations, and that takes the fun out of it. So probably best to do it on the side and leave it as my fun projects.

btw I had assumed everyone is like that, but I asked a coworker what he'd do if he got enough money to not have to work, and he said he didn't know, he'd probably still work.  ???
So this might be a personality thing, indeed, rather than a general human thing?

--- End quote ---

I feel this way because of my INTJ/P personality type. I think INTPs can ideally enjoy their jobs, but work can also easily have aspects that as you say "take the fun out of it". I totally agree about the "Even entrepreneurs have a boss- the market itself." thing and for INTPs it is perhaps typical to see this kind of truths that are strangely invisible for others.

It is not only about what tasks the job incorporates, but also about when, in what order, in what priority and at what speed are those tasks supposed to be done. INTPs enjoy doing things slowly and in their own way. That isn't possible most of the time.

greg:

--- Quote from: 71 dB on December 07, 2021, 12:33:00 AM ---It is not only about what tasks the job incorporates, but also about when, in what order, in what priority and at what speed are those tasks supposed to be done. INTPs enjoy doing things slowly and in their own way. That isn't possible most of the time.

--- End quote ---
I totally agree with the exception of speed- really depends on the activity, sometimes going as fast as possible can be an adrenaline rush- and tbh, something I crave, really makes me feel alive. Generally, I'm more slow-paced when dealing with people because I'm usually just not interested in engagement at all, and know that you can't make people go faster, so no point in expending extra energy on them. It's almost like spontaneous procrastination.

In the middle of a Dr.K video about ADHD, it's enlightening and reminded me about:

One thing about the P/J (aka hunter vs. farmer) dichotomy that I think it's overlooking is the aspect of volition, which the AP system has as an attribute while no other typing system has it, despite its importance.

What I'm starting to think is naturally I'm quite a bit more of a P, but in reality I might outwardly appear as more of a J simply due to knowing that J's actually achieve more, and you have to be more J-like to function in modern society, anyways.

If you have high volition, you will set goals for yourself, making your own schedules and directing your own life (despite what others want from you), which is very J-like- but at the same time, if you are a "Perceiver" then you will kind of hate having schedules in the first place and tend to get bored easily with routine. So there's conflicting feelings within the same dimension.

But yeah, just some new thoughts I'm working out, all of these ideas are really starting to coalesce now.

greg:
Also, not sure I mentioned this or not, but someone in the typing group I'm in typed me when I sent a video to him in the Vultology system, a few months ago.

https://cognitivetype.com/what-is-vultology/

It's basically just visual typing, types your movements and speech style, just any info they can get visually, and relate it back to the Jungian functions.

I got Ne/Fi, with semi-conscious Te.

Had a feeling I'd get Ne because it's "loose," constant body swaying and eye movement (that's not fixed to body position- Se is, though). Sitting still is hard for me in general. I can't even watch a movie without wanting to pick up guitar and move my fingers, or fidget somehow, unless the movie is insanely good. Probably why something as stimulating as Cloverfield is my favorite movie.

The semi-conscious Te means that there is some more direct/aggressive body language, but it is secondary to the Fi body language (which seems to be more middle-faced scrunched-up movements and such).

So by MBTI standards, if you were to believe in typing only by body behavior (rather than life patterns), which is probably more accurate IMO, then I'd actually be an INFP. The most stereotypical type for creative people that have problems fitting into society.  :P

greg:

--- Quote from: 71 dB on December 07, 2021, 12:33:00 AM ---I feel this way because of my INTJ/P personality type. I think INTPs can ideally enjoy their jobs, but work can also easily have aspects that as you say "take the fun out of it". I totally agree about the "Even entrepreneurs have a boss- the market itself." thing and for INTPs it is perhaps typical to see this kind of truths that are strangely invisible for others.

It is not only about what tasks the job incorporates, but also about when, in what order, in what priority and at what speed are those tasks supposed to be done. INTPs enjoy doing things slowly and in their own way. That isn't possible most of the time.

--- End quote ---
Just another thought.
You know the cognitive functions, right? Te/Ti, Fe/Fi, for example?

The thing with INTP's is that they are using the Ti function. It's introverted, so it needs it's own space and time. It can't be rushed and it's sporadic.
Te = Agile Methodology
Give people quick solutions. They might not be permanent, because you haven't taken the time needed that Ti has taken to process and understand how things work deeply. Ti can use that understanding to provide permanent solutions. But business doesn't work that way- it works best in the Te way. Quick money transfer- I have this problem, fix it, I pay you. It might have the same problem again, I have to pay you again, etc. It's a better business model for companies (more like a subscription service). With Ti you can end up doing crazy stuff like coding Python automation to automate yourself out of your own job. All of the great geniuses of history use Ti to make insights or discoveries that have changed the world and stood the test of time- they are likely to be things people didn't even know that they wanted or needed (unlike the Te function).

The great parallel of this is the Fi/Fe version. An example of how I understood this is my approach to music composition versus someone else- we were both officially typed in OPS, he was Fe and I'm Fi. What he's doing with the Fe is looking at a specific genre and realizing that there is a market for it, and decides to write music in this particular genre. That's fine, but it's limited in the sense that you might have temporary popularity within that crowd, but your music is much less likely to stand the test of time- what I'm trying to do in the Fi sense is to create stuff that no one has ever heard before. People won't know that they want it until they hear it, because people only can verbally express what they want to hear as in what they already know that they've heard. All of the greatest music that stood the test of time was very much unique for its time, unmistakable for anyone else- it's all done with Fi. Fi people creates the waves if they can break through the market somehow (which is going to be even more difficult than Fe people), while Fe people ride the wave, more easily marketing themselves as this genre or that genre, but their audience is gone in 10-20 years once the trend dies out.

greg:


Really like this, it can be a shorthand way to get your enneagram type, probably the quickest way if anything sticks out to you immediately. Actually excellent choice of words IMO.

Ex. my tritype, 548 = avoiding emptiness, despair, and weakness. Pick three.

I think the avoiding means that you might have a tendency to feel those sort of negative emotions more strongly than the others, and that's what you are trying to avoid. If you read broad descriptions of the type, more things might be applicable to you just due to the fact of a lifetime trying to avoid those specific feelings leads to certain life characteristics or patterns forming.

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