Personality Types

Started by greg, July 22, 2008, 07:24:43 PM

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Florestan

#140
Quote from: greg on December 12, 2020, 12:06:52 PM
I chose Socialist for every question because every one sounded socialist/communist to me.

Collectivism Test
result icon
You tried to distinguish socialism from Nazism and fascism and got it right 40% of the time.
You were able to correctly identify:

0% of Fascist statements.
0% of Nazi statements.
100% of Socialist statements.

Hah!  :D

Well, Mussolini started out as a Socialist activist and journalist, and Hitler's party was called the National-Socialist Party of the German Workers.  ;D


Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

drogulus

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:50:02 AM
I do think and do believe that inveterate rapists and paedophiles should be punished severely, much  much much more severely than pickpockets  or corrupt politicians. They are abnormal people who should be prevented by all necessary means to do the abnormal things they bask in.


     I was thinking more along the lines of introverts or gold bugs, or artists, perhaps.

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 11:50:02 AM

Wait a minute! Are you saying, implying and stating that a Fascist should be accorded the same protection of the law as everyone else, no more and no less? If you do, then you are far more tolerant than me --- I would have all Fascists, Nazis and Communists hanged on the spot, right now, right there!

     They are, and since I don't see how a society could remain free otherwise, they should have the protection of the law. However, I'm intolerant personally more than I am philosophically. To gold bugs I say......Get Thee Hence!

     
Quotegrouped under collectivism


      .....collected under groupism.....
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Florestan

Quote from: drogulus on December 12, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
    I  don't see how a society could remain free otherwise, they should have the protection of the law.

Imagine Lenin was hanged immediately after setting foot on Russian soil and began propagandizing for Communism. Or HItler was hanged immediately after the Beer Hall Putsch.  Had not the world been a better place?

Freedom must be protected at any cost, including curtailing the freedom of all those who would curtail the freedom of anybody else. I say hang here and now all Communists, Fascists and Nazis!
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

71 dB

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 08:51:21 AM
I take them all just for fun, and so should you.

I do.  ;)

These test make one-dimensional questions when the answers are often multidimensional (e.g. I support X if also Y is done, but if Y is not done I don't support X either, because it only makes sense with Y). The lack of multidimensional questions are made up having many one-dimensional questions and a simplistic algorithm tries to figure out how the person would have answered to fewer multi-dimensional questions.  :P

Quote from: greg on December 12, 2020, 09:58:20 AM
Democratic Socialism - Social Democracy - Capitalism
What is the main difference, briefly, between these three?
So the USA is Capitalism and you are for Social Democracy? I thought Bernie was for Democratic Socialism.

Societies and economy are so complex systems, that the differences are hard to explain.

In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically. This is the furthest right version of socialism and differs from socialism by having democratic process instead of the state telling what to do.

Social Democracy is the furthest left version of capitalism. It's build on capitalism, but also contains strong wellfare programs and many things are run by the state instead of private sector or together with private sector with heavy regulation (e.g. healthcare).

In Capitalism it is thought that poverty is a failure of the individual rather than the society and wellfare programs are kept minimal as an insentive to try harder and succeed in life. Those who do succeed can gain extreme wealth.

Hopefully this clarifies there terms a little bit for you, but be aware that these terms aren't defined that well and people may disagree about details, but this is more or less how I define them.

The US is not pure idealistic capitalism. It's crony capitalism. If the US was capitalistic, Exxon Mobile would not get $4 billion of subscidies each year just because it has bought the politicians to make it so. Legal bribery in the US makes the country crony capitalism aka corporate socialism.

Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, but he has the terminology wrong. His political agenda is to advocate Social Democracy, the system used in countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland which has empirically been very successful.

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Florestan

Quote from: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 03:02:15 PM
In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically.

There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

The people as a collective is a fiction.

Democracy is a fiction.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

drogulus

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 02:23:04 PM


Freedom must be protected at any cost, including curtailing the freedom of all those who would curtail the freedom of anybody else. I say hang here and now all Communists, Fascists and Nazis!

      I'd rather not kill it to save it.
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drogulus

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 03:11:11 PM
There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

The people as a collective is a fiction.

Democracy is a fiction.

     I call them enabling assumptions. We get the kind of freedom we have because we are predisposed to act on them.
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greg

Quote from: 71 dB on December 12, 2020, 03:02:15 PM
I do.  ;)

These test make one-dimensional questions when the answers are often multidimensional (e.g. I support X if also Y is done, but if Y is not done I don't support X either, because it only makes sense with Y). The lack of multidimensional questions are made up having many one-dimensional questions and a simplistic algorithm tries to figure out how the person would have answered to fewer multi-dimensional questions.  :P

Societies and economy are so complex systems, that the differences are hard to explain.

In democratic socialism all or most means of production are owned by the people as a collective and how these means of production are run is decided democratically. This is the furthest right version of socialism and differs from socialism by having democratic process instead of the state telling what to do.

Social Democracy is the furthest left version of capitalism. It's build on capitalism, but also contains strong wellfare programs and many things are run by the state instead of private sector or together with private sector with heavy regulation (e.g. healthcare).

In Capitalism it is thought that poverty is a failure of the individual rather than the society and wellfare programs are kept minimal as an insentive to try harder and succeed in life. Those who do succeed can gain extreme wealth.

Hopefully this clarifies there terms a little bit for you, but be aware that these terms aren't defined that well and people may disagree about details, but this is more or less how I define them.

The US is not pure idealistic capitalism. It's crony capitalism. If the US was capitalistic, Exxon Mobile would not get $4 billion of subscidies each year just because it has bought the politicians to make it so. Legal bribery in the US makes the country crony capitalism aka corporate socialism.

Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist, but he has the terminology wrong. His political agenda is to advocate Social Democracy, the system used in countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland which has empirically been very successful.
Ok cool, I think I get it now, thanks for the explanation.
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71 dB

#148
Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 03:11:11 PM
There has not been, there is not, and there will not be anything even remotely ressembling democratic socialism.

Not perhaps democratic socialist countries, but there has been politicians and political parties in many countries advocating these ideas. For example Mikhail Gorbachev wanted to move the Soviet Union towards democratic socialism.

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 03:11:11 PMThe people as a collective is a fiction.

You might have a differing opinion when a Romanian athlete wins Olympic gold.  ;D

Quote from: Florestan on December 12, 2020, 03:11:11 PMDemocracy is a fiction.

Perhaps people in Romania feel that way, but there's plenty of countries including my country Finland which are pretty democratic.
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71 dB

Quote from: greg on December 12, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Ok cool, I think I get it now, thanks for the explanation.

You're welcome.  ;)
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greg

Discovered two new systems the last two days- one is a bit complex and hard to understand, the other is pretty simple (it involves motivation styles and is from India). Not sure I'll ever discuss them, but they will be fun to dig in to.

Just a thought, but I often go to personality-database.com and do a search for some character (often fictional ones) and it seems that lately I've been very accurate lately on my guesses for their enneagram type (on the page it will give a bunch of votes from other people).

So it means that I'm understanding the enneagram system more and also I'm seeing the same thing that other people are seeing as the predominant traits of that character. It is statistically unlikely I would have the same guesses as others so often if the (main idea of) the system was a bunch of nonsense.
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Rosalba

The Artist, mainly - but with bits and pieces from the duty-fulfiller and the nurturer.
I might have had the originality spoken of but was crushed into timidity by a fierce and tyrannical father.

greg

Here's one that people might find fun:

Murderous Villain Test
https://www.idrlabs.com/villain/test.php


I don't know if I agree with the results and am also not so familiar with this evil villain, so for this test is a dud.  :P But could be a fun test for others.




Quote
Albert Speer
Albert Speer
Minister of Armaments in Nazi Germany
"One seldom recognizes the devil when he is putting his hand on your shoulder."

Personality Match

Like Albert Speer, you are intellectually minded. You see yourself as an observer of events rather than as a partaker in them - as someone who analyzes rather than influences, and thinks rather than does. However, you should remember that your detached analytical stance does not make you an innocent bystander in life and that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. Passivity is also a choice that affects others.

Words of Warning

Points to consider for people with your personality - have you ever:

Shrugged your shoulders and given up trying to apply your own sense of what you knew was right, simply because other people's outlooks seemed so far from yours?
Come across as insensitive and absent-minded because you were so lost in your own inner analyses that you did not want to extend your attention to anything else?
Put your considerable analytical skills to work at solving problems that it would perhaps not be entirely ethical to solve, thinking only of the technical side of the situation, and not the moral one?
Diminished your own productivity by ceaselessly hunting down minor imperfections and mistakes in your own work, and constantly undoing the progress that you had made?
Knowingly wasted your talents because you "did not see the point" of all the striving and self-assertion that usually goes along with accomplishment and achievement?
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greg

Just recording this thought- the Enneagram 7w6 type. Which correlates to MBTI ENFP type.

Study case of 3 people:

So, I have two friends that took the MBTI test and scored as ENFP, which I completely agree is accurate after knowing them for some time. The third person is Jared Dines, a popular guitarist/drummer youtuber that I've followed for years. Jared Dines consensus is 6w7/ENFP (i agree with, though maybe 7w6 is more accurate? but it's basically the same thing...).
source: https://www.personality-database.com/profile/30073/jared-dines-musicians-music-critics-mbti-personality-type


All three of them remind me of each other, STRONGLY, despite the different backgrounds/interests/hobbies they may have. Enneagram type 7 is The Enthusiast. So they are the most fun type of people to be around, full of curiosity, weird ideas, jack-of-all trades, and are outgoing. HOWEVER they all three have talked about their other side, which is very bad problems with anxiety/depression. This I really think is the 6 wing.

What I think is going on here, is that when you get into a very broad range of interests, you create so many different problems and challenges for yourself. So you can either lean on the 8 wing (aggression) or the 6 wing (being guarded and going into rational problem-solving) mode. Usually people who are more jerk-like and wild will go on 8, and regular easygoing people will move to 6 wing.

But yeah, I find the strong similarities really fascinating, starting to feel like this is a really really solid archetype...
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greg

A very interesting find, of course this is unprovable but it really seems to make sense.


Quote
9w1 Ego-Superego
1w9 Superego-Ego
1w2 Double Superego
2w1 Double Superego
2w3 Superego-Id
3w2 Id-Superego
3w4 Id-Ego
4w3 Ego-Id
4w5 Double Ego
5w4 Double Ego
5w6 Ego-Superego
6w5 Superego-Ego
6w7 Superego-Id
7w6 Id-Superego
7w8 Double Id
8w7 Double Id
8w9 Id-Ego
9w8 Ego-Id
It seems that a typical type for psychopaths is 7w8 or 8w7, people have noted the possible connection with dopamine as well. Seems like psychopathy is the id running alone, possibly there could be some ego, but there is no superego at all that is developed due to some brain deformity.

Recently learned about M.E. Thomas, who is the author of "Confessions of a Sociopath." She is voted as 7w8 on personalitydb, listened to her speak on a few new youtube videos, seems like it might be correct, speaking about her dangerous adventures and confrontations.

7 is basically prone to high impulsiveness and 8 is prone to high aggression.

"Double ego" for me, all energy towards the center.  :D
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greg

Every now and then retaking quizzes to see if anything changes.

Redid this one:

https://www.truity.com/test/enneagram-personality-test

Pretty much the same results as always, no matter which site I take the test from.  :P
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71 dB

#156
Apparently many people get identified as INTJs mistakenly. Since the tests I took indicated a rather low value (53 %) for "J", I started to compare INTJ and INTP types. Looks like I am actually a mixture of INTJ and INTP, perhaps just a little more INTJ.

I recently took the MBTI test again and got INTJ-T, but the "J" part was 57 %.

I feel I am not a true INTJ who can magically "jump" to a logical conclusion over the middle part, nor do I know and remember "everything" like a true INTP. Maybe I am just a mixture of the worst parts of INTJ and INTP which would explain my struggles in life? In the end all of us must be a weighted sum of all personality types, but in my case INTJ and INTP seems to take the major junk of it all. However, I need to check the "N" part. I may have also some ISTJ and ISTP in me, but I need to study* these personality types. The "I" part is settled. I am as introverted as they come.

These things are new to me and I need time to get a better understanding of all of this, but this is also interesting. I wish I knew/cared about these things when I was 20, not when I am already 50. My life would have been much less about self-doubt and confusion about what is wrong with me. There is nothing wrong with me. I am just a mixture of INTJ and INTP so of course I suck at things in which some very different personality types are good at such as understanding how other people feel. All we need is a World that understands and respects these differences and allows all personality types to strive in life.

* Well, quick look into these personality types indicate they don't describe me well at all. Especially ISTP "Virtuoso" is quite far from me. So, it seems INTJ and INTP describe me almost completely: So, my cognitive functions would be:

Dominant function: Introverted thinking AND intuition
Auxiliary function: Extroverted thinking AND intuition
Tertiary function: Introverted sensing AND feeling
Inferior function: Extroverted sensing AND feeling

I think this sums up REALLY well what's going on in my head.  0:) Extroverted sensing and feeling being my inferior cognitive function explains brilliantly my awkwardness, idiotism, clumsiness, insensitivity and cluelessness in many social situations. I am much better in social interaction with smaller groups of people I know well, because I can use introverted sensing and feeling in those situations (other people are projected "inside" me because I know them well) and that is at least my tertiary cognitive function, but even in those situations I am hardly a social skills genius.  ;D
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Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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Florestan

I say, fuck'em all, all these tests and classifications! To the hell with them all! Each and every single human being is unique and there is no effing way under the sun to tell how and why a unique human being would behave given these or those conditions. Left, right, center --- bullshit on stilts! All three are heavily dependent on historical and personal circumstances.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

71 dB

Quote from: Florestan on July 17, 2021, 09:33:45 AM
I say, fuck'em all, all these tests and classifications! To the hell with them all! Each and every single human being is unique and there is no effing way under the sun to tell how and why a unique human being would behave given these or those conditions. Left, right, center --- bullshit on stilts! All three are heavily dependent on historical and personal circumstances.

I may have thought this way long ago, but at some point in life people may stop and ask why certain things didn't go as they should have gone or why does the struggles continue despite all the efforts of overcoming them. There personality types seem to help people to understand themselves better and give some peace of mind: There are other people out there with identical struggles and feelings.

I just watched a youtube video by an INTP telling about her struggles in life (lack of achieving anything despite of trying) which seems to be typical to INTP who despite of high intelligance and knowledge just don't make it in life because of their weaknesses in other areas. That was comforting to me, because I have also struggled to achieve anything in life. I am not a failure. I am just an INTJ/P and that's why I don't have a wife/family and career. My type of people succeed "inside head" by constructing vivid colourful inner worlds and understanding things. The World just doesn't appreciate such success unless it is ground breaking such as a new theory in physics or something like that, but only a few super-intelligent INTJs and INTPs can achieve that. Anyway, aknowledging these things helps mental balance. Maybe for someone with a perfect life these things are "useless", but most people have issues, don't they?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

greg

Quote from: 71 dB on July 17, 2021, 03:32:29 AM
Apparently many people get identified as INTJs mistakenly. Since the tests I took indicated a rather low value (53 %) for "J", I started to compare INTJ and INTP types. Looks like I am actually a mixture of INTJ and INTP, perhaps just a little more INTJ.

I recently took the MBTI test again and got INTJ-T, but the "J" part was 57 %.

I feel I am not a true INTJ who can magically "jump" to a logical conclusion over the middle part, nor do I know and remember "everything" like a true INTP. Maybe I am just a mixture of the worst parts of INTJ and INTP which would explain my struggles in life? In the end all of us must be a weighted sum of all personality types, but in my case INTJ and INTP seems to take the major junk of it all. However, I need to check the "N" part. I may have also some ISTJ and ISTP in me, but I need to study* these personality types. The "I" part is settled. I am as introverted as they come.

These things are new to me and I need time to get a better understanding of all of this, but this is also interesting. I wish I knew/cared about these things when I was 20, not when I am already 50. My life would have been much less about self-doubt and confusion about what is wrong with me. There is nothing wrong with me. I am just a mixture of INTJ and INTP so of course I suck at things in which some very different personality types are good at such as understanding how other people feel. All we need is a World that understands and respects these differences and allows all personality types to strive in life.

* Well, quick look into these personality types indicate they don't describe me well at all. Especially ISTP "Virtuoso" is quite far from me. So, it seems INTJ and INTP describe me almost completely: So, my cognitive functions would be:

Dominant function: Introverted thinking AND intuition
Auxiliary function: Extroverted thinking AND intuition
Tertiary function: Introverted sensing AND feeling
Inferior function: Extroverted sensing AND feeling

I think this sums up REALLY well what's going on in my head.  0:) Extroverted sensing and feeling being my inferior cognitive function explains brilliantly my awkwardness, idiotism, clumsiness, insensitivity and cluelessness in many social situations. I am much better in social interaction with smaller groups of people I know well, because I can use introverted sensing and feeling in those situations (other people are projected "inside" me because I know them well) and that is at least my tertiary cognitive function, but even in those situations I am hardly a social skills genius.  ;D
One thing you wanna be careful about when you get deeper into studying this is just to make sure you question every little part of it, because there is plenty of stuff out there that is theories built on theories which end up in systems that you can't really verify at all.

For example, now that you are getting into cognitive functions, there's this idea on the internet that "looping" is a sign of unhealth, which is super ridiculous. (Looping is having either two extroverted or two introverted functions togethers as your main type- ex. Ne/Fe, Ti/Si, etc.)

In the Objective Personality System they realized that was BS. They typed me as Ni/Fi (introverted intuition + introverted feeling).

In cognitive function theory, some people can get confused which two functions they are using because of this. Because in MBTI, there are 16 types, but in cognitive functions there are 32 possibilities, and if you end up like me, using two introverted functions primarily, then it just won't translate well.


Regardless, still thinking more highly of the enneagram lately, as it's a system that really cuts to the core. MBTI, functions, etc. are interesting but more of a side effect from what you have to do to achieve your core values (which is what the enneagram is about). It's like the master system, everything else is just an extension from there.

I would be very surprised if you weren't a type 5, seems pretty obvious. But not sure which wing you'd be, I guess if it's 4 then you value freedom/authenticity/creativity more, if it's 6 then you value security/safety/support more. And you can also have a tritype which can really explain things even better. You might have 1 in your tritype, you are probably extremely similar to my type.
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