Author Topic: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon  (Read 200872 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1620 on: November 29, 2020, 10:47:11 PM »
I have the CHANDOS recording of The Gambler and it is damn good!!!

Very nice, Paul. I’ll have to check that one out. What is your favorite Prokofiev opera?
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1621 on: November 30, 2020, 12:50:37 AM »
I have a tough time appreciating Prokofiev’s symphonies. It seems that I’m most attracted to the 1st, 2nd and 6th. The 1st is a fantastic panache of the Classical Era’s symphonic language with some twists and turns along the way. The 2nd is maniacal and relentless it’s mechanically driven rhythmic scheme. The 6th is an inward, shadow-lurking symphonic creation that stays with me for awhile after I've heard it. Anyway, I prefer the ballets, concerti, chamber works and those awesome Piano Sonatas. I do still have a soft-spot for Alexander Nevsky and the Scythian Suite, which was formally a ballet from what I’ve read, but he decided to turn it into an orchestral suite. I still have yet to listen to any of the operas. I understand it that The Fiery Angel is the best one.
Interesting to hear John. My favourite symphonies are nos 3 and 6 and I also like No.2. I use to like No.5 a lot, especially as performed by Rozhdestvensky but, as was discussed on another thread, it's one of those works which has rather lost its appeal to me through over-familiarity. Maybe the new Petrenko recording (which I bought mainly for the Miaskovsky) will help me to appreciate it again, especially as it apparently has a very extended slow movement which, together with the exciting ending, is my favourite movement in the work. I also especially like the Scythian Suite, the Second Piano Concerto and the Ivan the Terrible film music, the Russian Overture and the Symphonic Suite from War and Peace and the Suite from The Love of Three Oranges.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 12:52:29 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1622 on: November 30, 2020, 05:23:55 AM »
I went to 5 performances of The Fiery Angel at the Los Angeles Opera about 25 years ago. The fact that I went to all five performances tells you how much I loved it! Now I have both the CD and DVD versions at home.
Yes, I love the third symphony because of it!

Very nice!
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1623 on: November 30, 2020, 07:30:17 AM »
Interesting to hear John. My favourite symphonies are nos 3 and 6 and I also like No.2. I use to like No.5 a lot, especially as performed by Rozhdestvensky but, as was discussed on another thread, it's one of those works which has rather lost its appeal to me through over-familiarity. Maybe the new Petrenko recording (which I bought mainly for the Miaskovsky) will help me to appreciate it again, especially as it apparently has a very extended slow movement which, together with the exciting ending, is my favourite movement in the work. I also especially like the Scythian Suite, the Second Piano Concerto and the Ivan the Terrible film music, the Russian Overture and the Symphonic Suite from War and Peace and the Suite from The Love of Three Oranges.

Very nice, Jeffrey. Do you know all of the ballets?
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1624 on: November 30, 2020, 08:23:28 AM »
Very nice, Jeffrey. Do you know all of the ballets?
I know Romeo and Juliet and to a lesser-extent Cinderella John. I think that the Scythian Suite, which is terrific, started out as a ballet. I was listening to his early work 'Dreams' in the car today. It's quite an unusual work and is about the only work by Prokofiev which reminds me of the music of his friend Miaskovsky. It has the same kind-of gloomy and introspective quality to it!
On a separate note I'm sure that 'The Love of Three Oranges' Suite influenced John Williams's music for 'Star Wars'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1625 on: November 30, 2020, 08:51:22 AM »
I know Romeo and Juliet and to a lesser-extent Cinderella John. I think that the Scythian Suite, which is terrific, started out as a ballet. I was listening to his early work 'Dreams' in the car today. It's quite an unusual work and is about the only work by Prokofiev which reminds me of the music of his friend Miaskovsky. It has the same kind-of gloomy and introspective quality to it!
On a separate note I'm sure that 'The Love of Three Oranges' Suite influenced John Williams's music for 'Star Wars'.

Wow! You need to check out On the Dnieper, Chout, Le pas d’acier, The Prodigal Son and The Tale of the Stone Flower. These would all be up your alley.
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1626 on: November 30, 2020, 09:07:41 AM »
Wow! You need to check out On the Dnieper, Chout, Le pas d’acier, The Prodigal Son and The Tale of the Stone Flower. These would all be up your alley.

Thanks John, I have at least heard of most of those but I need to give them another spin!
 :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1627 on: November 30, 2020, 09:26:25 AM »
Thanks John, I have at least heard of most of those but I need to give them another spin!
 :)

Yes, indeed. 8)
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1628 on: November 30, 2020, 03:04:42 PM »
I don't have major problems with the symphonies. The only exception would be the No. 4 in either version. It's the least memorable and doesn't feel cohesive to my ears. The 6th is growing on me, but I still struggle with the 1st movement.

Favorites: 2, 3 and 5.

I've heard all the ballets except The Flower Stone. Is the Rozhdestvensky recording the one to listen to?
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1629 on: November 30, 2020, 03:22:59 PM »
I don't have major problems with the symphonies. The only exception would be the No. 4 in either version. It's the least memorable and doesn't feel cohesive to my ears. The 6th is growing on me, but I still struggle with the 1st movement.

Favorites: 2, 3 and 5.

I've heard all the ballets except The Flower Stone. Is the Rozhdestvensky recording the one to listen to?

Rozhestvensky is definitely my preferred conductor in the ballets. I now find Jurowski a bit out-of-step with how I personally view these works. In other words, he’s a little on the relaxed side, which is not really how I like my Prokofiev to be performed.
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1630 on: November 30, 2020, 05:08:26 PM »
Very nice, Paul. I’ll have to check that one out. What is your favorite Prokofiev opera?
It is The Fiery Angel, but of course, I have not heard War and Peace yet...
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1631 on: November 30, 2020, 05:10:00 PM »
It is The Fiery Angel, but of course, I have not heard War and Peace yet...

You’re one of the many people have mentioned The Fiery Angel. It must be good. :D
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Offline relm1

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1632 on: November 30, 2020, 05:15:50 PM »
I don't have major problems with the symphonies. The only exception would be the No. 4 in either version. It's the least memorable and doesn't feel cohesive to my ears. The 6th is growing on me, but I still struggle with the 1st movement.

Favorites: 2, 3 and 5.

I've heard all the ballets except The Flower Stone. Is the Rozhdestvensky recording the one to listen to?

Oh no!  I freaking love both versions of No. 4.  It's so excellent in its tremendous propulsive energy and how it has a pedal point in C but denies that in the harmony for so long.  Prokofiev plays every chord on top of that C that doesn't include that most important resolved note.  For examples, you have a powerfully stated C with B flat major chord (B flat, D, F) then going to A major (A, C#, E), etc., everything but C!  He denies the resolution and when it builds and builds then there is a transition to something else.  You are really missing out if you dislike this fantastic symphony!  Secondly, the original version is nothing like the revised version so it's like two different and great symphonies. 

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1633 on: November 30, 2020, 05:21:13 PM »
Oh no!  I freaking love both versions of No. 4.  It's so excellent in its tremendous propulsive energy and how it has a pedal point in C but denies that in the harmony for so long.  Prokofiev plays every chord on top of that C that doesn't include that most important resolved note.  For examples, you have a powerfully stated C with B flat major chord (B flat, D, F) then going to A major (A, C#, E), etc., everything but C!  He denies the resolution and when it builds and builds then there is a transition to something else.  You are really missing out if you dislike this fantastic symphony!  Secondly, the original version is nothing like the revised version so it's like two different and great symphonies.

To bolded text: at least someone does. :D
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1634 on: November 30, 2020, 07:07:04 PM »
Rozhestvensky is definitely my preferred conductor in the ballets. I now find Jurowski a bit out-of-step with how I personally view these works. In other words, he’s a little on the relaxed side, which is not really how I like my Prokofiev to be performed.

Cool, John. I could take Rozhdestvensky then.
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1635 on: November 30, 2020, 07:11:43 PM »
Oh no!  I freaking love both versions of No. 4.  It's so excellent in its tremendous propulsive energy and how it has a pedal point in C but denies that in the harmony for so long.  Prokofiev plays every chord on top of that C that doesn't include that most important resolved note.  For examples, you have a powerfully stated C with B flat major chord (B flat, D, F) then going to A major (A, C#, E), etc., everything but C!  He denies the resolution and when it builds and builds then there is a transition to something else.  You are really missing out if you dislike this fantastic symphony!  Secondly, the original version is nothing like the revised version so it's like two different and great symphonies.

That's one of the advantages of knowing how to read scores. You find more fascination and can detect more details along the work. I'm tempted to give it another try. What recording would you recommend?
«Music is liquid architecture; architecture is frozen music.»

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1636 on: November 30, 2020, 08:31:43 PM »
Cool, John. I could take Rozhdestvensky then.

I’m not sure where you’ll take him, but, yes, do check him out. ;)
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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1637 on: December 02, 2020, 04:19:15 AM »
Listening to the Fifth Symphony. During the first movement's coda, can I hear low trills (?) on the piano along with the crashes on bass drum/tam-tam etc.? It's an incredible sound, anyway!

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1638 on: December 15, 2020, 04:45:09 PM »
This is where I should be, but it's late! What to do? I am confused! Help me.
Should I spend money on the Neeme set. It has been on wishlist for years?
I am so lost! When do I have time to listen to Prokofiev? Or something else?
It's 2:15 am. Fassbinder movie to watch! Why am I like this? What's wrong?
Why can't I be normal? Is it Todd? Is it Pekka Haavisto case? Both?

I think it would be a good time to take some deep breaths and relax. :-\
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

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Re: Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon
« Reply #1639 on: December 15, 2020, 04:46:45 PM »
Järvi is consistent on Prokofiev. A cycle I'm liking is the one conducted by Kirill Karabits on Onyx. What I've heard has been satisfactory thus far.
«Music is liquid architecture; architecture is frozen music.»

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe