Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

[not edward]

Yes, that's exactly right. If you want to hear a really manic, powerful and completely OTT 'Revolution' movement, you must try to source the Kondrashin - it positively gallops. I'm not sure if it's ever been released on CD, but occasionally the vinyl LP turns up on ebay.

It has appeared on CD (I don't know if officially or not) ... I once turned down a used copy because it was expensive and the performance was cut.

[Drasko]

It has appeared on CD (I don't know if officially or not) ... I once turned down a used copy because it was expensive and the performance was cut.

http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=43282&genreid=

[karlhenning]

It has appeared on CD (I don't know if officially or not) ... I once turned down a used copy because it was expensive and the performance was cut.

The cuts were entirely understandable, of course, though from a sheer musical point of view, there was an opportunity lost.

[The Six]

I want to say that Prokofiev's best sonata is number 8. The first movement is incredibly powerful, the second brilliant in its playfulness, and the third is just fun, and has great melodies. The problem is that I just don't see the three movements connecting. They are all amazing on their own, but the second movement doesn't sound right after the first, which is so dark and dramatic. I know he mixed some themes from the first into the final movement, but besides that obvious point I don't see the connection. Someone help.

[Danny]

Enjoying this doozy from Naxos:

[Pierre]

I want to say that Prokofiev's best sonata is number 8. The first movement is incredibly powerful, the second brilliant in its playfulness, and the third is just fun, and has great melodies. The problem is that I just don't see the three movements connecting. They are all amazing on their own, but the second movement doesn't sound right after the first, which is so dark and dramatic. I know he mixed some themes from the first into the final movement, but besides that obvious point I don't see the connection. Someone help.

I think that's partly because for the central movement Prokofiev simply recycled music he'd originally written as incidental music to a projected stage production of Eugene Onegin. But I don't think that was just 'cutting corners'; apart from the fact the Onegin production never happened and so Prokofiev wanted to rescue some music, it also - I think - recalls a more gracious period than the one Prokofiev was writing in (almost certainly he had in mind the pre-Revolutionary St Petersburg he knew as a young student); he underlines the point further by the brutalisation of that music in the finale. I think the slow movement of the Sixth Sonata serves a similar purpose in that work; and to some extent the slow movement of the Seventh, though that is more like a bitter-sweet lament (it's been pointed out by one of Prokofiev's biographers that he weaves in a near-quotation of Schumann's 'Wehmut' from Liederkreis, Op. 39 which is about a nightingale singing as if it's happy, when in fact it's singing a 'song of longing from their dungeon's depth... no one feels the pain, the deep sorrow in the song.' It should be borne in mind that Prokofiev started composing sonatas 6, 7 and 8 in the wake of the arrest - and eventual execution - of his dear friend, the theatre director Meyerhold, by Stalin's NKVD).

[karlhenning]

Enjoying this doozy from Naxos:

That's a good one, Danny!

Very interesting post, Pierre.

I don't know how close Prokofiev got to be with Meyerhold, though I believe that it was conversations between these two which started in motion The Love for Three Oranges.

[Pierre]

Very interesting post, Pierre.

I don't know how close Prokofiev got to be with Meyerhold, though I believe that it was conversations between these two which started in motion The Love for Three Oranges.

There were several attempts by the two to collaborate on staging an opera by Prokofiev, starting with The Gambler, the premiere of which Meyerhold would have directed; that was kayboshed by the Revolution (it was during that time that Meyerhold suggested Love for Three Oranges to Prokofiev as an opera subject). Through the 1920s they were discussing the possibility of getting The Gambler staged in Russia: Prokofiev had several meetings with Meyerhold about this during his visit to Russia in 1927, and indeed during that same visit Meyerhold said he would try to intervene in behalf of a cousin of Prokofiev's who had been arrested. Finally, Semyon Kotko was written specifically for Meyerhold to stage in 1939, but Meyerhold himself was arrested just as the opera was going into rehearsal.

[karlhenning]

Thanks for the illumination, Pierre. Had entirely forgotten that Meyerhold was involved with both The Gambler and Semyon Kotko.

[jurajjak]

Hi,

Those interested in the relationship between Prokofiev and Meyerhold might check out this review and analysis of Princeton's production of the Prokofiev-Meyerhold "Boris Godunov":

http://www.sprkfv.net/journal/three14/summary14.html

[greg]

Any listen to Chout?
I'm just starting to "get" this ballet...... although i can see why it's not considered his greatest work, in a way, it has some of his best stuff in there.

[karlhenning]

Chout is sort of light, somewhere between commedia dell'arte and Russian folklore; but it is a fine score.

[greg]

Chout is sort of light, somewhere between commedia dell'arte and Russian folklore; but it is a fine score.

I know you said you haven't "warmed up" to Chout, though that was a long time ago.....
do you think it would sound better as a Suite? Or something with a more solid form?
I have the feeling it might, since to me it's top notch music in a *very abstract form which could only be understood by following the story.

*but not completely, since it reshuffles a lot of the themes, which you hear again and again commonly in ballets, but the way they are restated just seems more abstract when you don't know the story, compared to something like Romeo and Juliet.

[karlhenning]

I know you said you haven't "warmed up" to Chout, though that was a long time ago.....

That was a while ago; I'm all warmed up to Chout, now.

[greg]

That was a while ago; I'm all warmed up to Chout, now.

see, that was what I was talking about. I was mesmerized by the clips, but the first few times I listened, I didn't quite understand it. Maybe I was too tired to listen, too, but it's hard to take in all at once. If he wrote a Suite (can't remember if he did) it probably would've been best to listen to that first.

[karlhenning]

I'd actually heard it first as the Suite, but it was one of those 'chop-'em-out' Prokofiev recordings that Järvi disgorged hurriedly, and by the dozens, in time for marketing for the Prokofiev centenary, and it left a mnyeh impression of the piece, from which I was a long time recovering 

[greg]

I'd actually heard it first as the Suite, but it was one of those 'chop-'em-out' Prokofiev recordings that Järvi disgorged hurriedly, and by the dozens, in time for marketing for the Prokofiev centenary, and it left a mnyeh impression of the piece, from which I was a long time recovering 

Wow, that's the complete opposite of what I was thinking, then 

[Greta]

You know, I have a confession to make. Though I am familiar with a good bit of Prokofiev and like the music I have never heard any Symphony of his besides the "Classical" all the way through. Don't know how I managed that feat for so long.

Well, until today. I was going through my extra hard drive, and ran across a recording I forgot I had, of the 5th, Eschenbach/Houston, live late 80s. .Always meant to listen to the piece, and had nothing else going this afternoon...so...

Man, what a work!!! Cracking recording too. But I have no clue what to make of the 1st mvmt Andante...it reminds me of Mahler, that mvmt, rathe wild, I think I like it but I just can't make any sense out of the thing. The last half, the brass, wow....but it's nearly flat out atonal for stretches, quite a far cry from Romeo and Juliet!

The rest of the movements are much easier to handle, the Allegro marcato being very classic Prokofiev to me. The Adagio is really cool, I think my favorite mvmt on first hearing. The last mvmt is tons of fun and the end infectious. But the first mvmt perplexing!

What other symphonies would you recommend next? I don't even know what's out there recording wise, except I remember hearing about Ozawa and Gergiev.

[not edward]

I'd suggest the 6th after hearing the 5th. To my mind it's an even finer work (it's much darker as well). As far as recordings go, this is one work where I've heard one single recording that blows away all others--Mravinsky and the Leningrad PO live in Prague:



After that, I'd probably suggest the deceptively charming (but darker below the surface) 7th--probably the best performance in the Gergiev set--and the demonic, dissonant 3rd (the superb Concertgebouw/Kondrashin recording is oop but available as an ArkivCD).

[greg]

I'd suggest the 6th after hearing the 5th. To my mind it's an even finer work (it's much darker as well).

That's one symphony I just don't understand no matter how many times I listen. And I really don't understand how it could be liked more than the 5th! 

You know, I have a confession to make. Though I am familiar with a good bit of Prokofiev and like the music I have never heard any Symphony of his besides the "Classical" all the way through. Don't know how I managed that feat for so long.

well, he's written so much good music besides his symphonies, we all can understand.....
i went quite a while only hearing 1 and 5 (and just catching 6 on the radio) myself.