Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

[Nick]

Some other real rarities I'd love to see are the Four Etudes, Op.2; Four Pieces, Op.4; Sonatinas, Op.54; The Year 1941, Op.90; Sinfonietta, Op.5/48, March, Op.99, Winter Bonfire, Op.122 and of course the perennially underperformed Chout, Op.21; Le Pas d'Acier, Op.41; Prodigal Son, Op.46; October Cantata, Op.74, and Ivan the Terrible, Op.116.

There are some flawed works by Prokofiev that are still really imaginative and enjoyable in my opinion, like the Ballade for the Unknown Boy, Op.93, or the Ode to the End of the War, Op.105.

[greg]

A work I have just discovered thanks to youtube... and "Senta."

The October Cantata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0veYI4SKGw

0:)

[karlhenning]

A work I have just discovered thanks to youtube... and "Senta."

The October Cantata

Overall, I like the Cantata better than the Fourth Symphony . . . maybe better than the Third, too 

[Nick]

Isn't that such an incredible piece? Were you watching the Gergiev broadcast with the LSO? I can't say I prefer it to the Third Symphony, Op.47. The Third Symphony, Op.47 is a perfect work. But it's more than the equal of Alexander Nevsky, Op.78. It's such a tragedy that Richard Taruskin took it to lambast the October Cantata, and Steve Smith of the New York Times took to calling it Prokofiev's "greatest musical blunder."

Have you heard Symphonic Song, Op.57?

[karlhenning]

Shouldn't take Taruskin's dislikes to heart.  Everybody's got blind-spots.

[greg]

The Symphonic Song is a disappointment for me- what'd you think about it, Prokofiev1891?

[Nick]

Good God no! Listen again and again. Christ what a piece.

Very darkly scored, but with a lot of dark tunes. I don't know how to describe it. I guess it might remind some people of Richard Strauss ala Elektra, but it's thoroughly modern all the same. Be assured, there are rewards galore in this score, but only on repeated listens. It's a perfect piece.

[Mark G. Simon]

Thoroughly Modern Sergei.

(could be a musical in that....)

[Nick]

Have any of you heard On the Dnieper, Op.51?

Gorgeous piece, lyrical, but with a certain amount of rhythmic vitality as well. No rough spots in the whole ballet.

You know, Alexei Ratmansky is going to be choreographing it with American Ballet Theatre with a premiere June 1st.

What do any of you think of it?

Nick

[greg]

Good God no! Listen again and again. Christ what a piece.

Very darkly scored, but with a lot of dark tunes. I don't know how to describe it. I guess it might remind some people of Richard Strauss ala Elektra, but it's thoroughly modern all the same. Be assured, there are rewards galore in this score, but only on repeated listens. It's a perfect piece.

It might take awhile then... I've already listened anywhere from 5-8 times.

[Nick]

Are you listening to the Neeme Jarvi/Scottish National Orchestra recording that also has the Divertimento, Op.43, and Prodigal Son, Op.46?

I admit it actually took me many listens to enjoy the Symphonic Song, Op.57. Prokofiev may have written in the diatonic idiom more than some other composers, but that doesn't mean he's more accessible. I just love the recurring brass opening segment, the "struggle" as Prokofiev called it, and the "achievement" theme on the strings to close. Those recurring brass motifs almost sort of crunch you down to reality. But it's one of Prokofiev's darkest and bleakest works, to be sure. His bleakest perhaps. It leaves kind of a pit in my stomach and makes me uneasy. No wrong notes in this piece, though some of the passage work is very off-kilter, disjointed, and austere.

Then again, there are some Prokofiev works that other people respect a lot that I don't care as much for, like the Scythian Suite, Op.20; Violin Concerto No.2, Op.63; Hail to Stalin, Op.85; or Tales of the Old Grandmother, Op.31.

Nick

[greg]

Yeah, it's that recording (not sure if there even is another one).
To me, it just doesn't stick together well. I don't follow it well... but, if it took you awhile, I guess I could come around eventually.

[eyeresist]

the Ode to the End of the War, Op.105.

I've only heard Rozhdy's performance of this, and I got the impression there was a lot of potential in the score he wasn't bringing out.

[Nick]

Maybe you're referring to the Melodiya/Musical Heritage Society recording with the USSR Ministry of Culture Symphony Orchestra that also contains Le pas d'acier, Op.41?

I like the recording fine although it's the first one I heard so I have that bias. As always with Prokofiev it seems, there's great tunes and material in there. With a handful of works in his output, the question to me sometimes is whether I approve of the way they're connected.

A lot of times with Prokofiev's music, there seems to me to be a kind of delight in bringing things to a full stop and then starting in again, as in the Piano Concerto No.1, Op.10. And then his interest in film music and montage seemed to influence the way he spliced music material together.

Here, I kind of approve of what seems to be a hap hazard connection of ideas. That's kind of the point because it's depicting a joyous military occasion with military pipes churping away overly cheerfully, drums and timpanis beating away, and melodic fragments coming and going in rapid succession.

Still, I don't think this is first-tier Prokofiev. To me, it's definitely second-tier Prokofiev, and among the worser pieces he wrote, but still I like it.

[techniquest]

Still, I don't think this is first-tier Prokofiev. To me, it's definitely second-tier Prokofiev, and among the worser pieces he wrote, but still I like it.

Isn't music subjective? I would disagree that "The Ode to the End of the War Op.105" is second-tier in any way. With it's unique orchestration and use of various percussion as almost solo instruments, it ought to be regarded as something of a pioneering work. The central (quieter) section, is hauntingly beautiful, but with the 8 harps providing a steady, somehow distant and mystical rhythm, there is something almost primeval about it.
I have the Rozhdestvensky recording (the first one I heard also), which is now augmented by the Nikolayev (Consonance) and Titov (Beaux) both of which are fine interpretations but with doubly fast final bars than Rozhdestvensky. I cannot get on with the recent Jurowski recording (Pentatone), though it has some very good reviews and, to be fair, I only heard it once.
Similarly I have never been able to enjoy the Mark Elder recording of the 20th Anniversary cantata (BBC) - it gives the impression that the everyone's bored with it, don't quite get it and just go through the motions until the end.

[Nick]

I agree with what you say. Trouble is, what else are you going to call second-tier Prokofiev? There's really not a whole lot.

If pushed, out of 135 opus numbers, I'd put these down as the least successful: Seven Songs, Op.89; Seven Songs, Op.79; Tales of the Old Grandmother, Op.31; Songs of Our Days, Op.76; Hail to Stalin, Op.85; Piano Sonata No.5, Op.38; Meeting of the Volga and the Don, Op.130.

Nick

[Bu]

Shhhh! The October Cantata is one of Prokofiev's best-kept secrets, and a real gem of a work with some of his most beautiful music. For your listening please, here is the VII Movement - Victory.

Click to download

Or you can just listen to this clip with one of my all-time favourite Prokofiev themes:

[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/2/5/2307936/Sample.mp3[/mp3]

I'm positive that if this theme was in one of his symphonies, it would have as many recordings as the 1st or 5th. But being part of a little-known (well, by your average Joe Classical) choral work with communist connetations (however satirical) it has suffered from very unfortunate neglect. So, yes, find a recording and enjoy! 

Thank you, Benji, for that gem!  Will try and look for a recording of the whole work.

Good to see the Paddy Wagon rollin' along again............

[Daverz]

Thank you, Benji, for that gem!  Will try and look for a recording of the whole [October Cantata].

I would recommend Kondrashin on Melodiya.  Järvi uses a revised edition of the score, but seems to miss the mark musically.

[Nick]

As regards the Kondrashin on Melodiya, does it include the entire Cantata? It was my impression that the Jarvi was (1) the first recording and (2) the only recording that contained the entire score. I thought that in the other previous performances and recordings, a repeat of the philosophers movement replaced any movements that contained texts with Lenin and Stalin quotes.

I can't compare the Jarvi recording with others because the Jarvi is the only one I know. All the same, compared to two different performances I've seen of the work, I think it comes up well. In particular, he gives a little more clash and umph to the opening movement.

Did any of you see the performance of this work at the Bard Summerscape Festival in Annandale-on-Hudson, NY? The performance was serviceable, but it seemed as though they cut a lot of text to make the work more palatable for PCers. Tellingly, Professor Gibbs, who gave the preconcert lecture, told me before the performance, "I really hate this piece."

Unfortunately, I think PC considerations will keep this work from getting heard for a very long time. It's too bad, and I wonder if that's what keeps the magnificent Stravinsky Cantata from getting more play. From what I recall, it uses an anti semitic text.

[karlhenning]

Did any of you see the performance of this work at the Bard Summerscape Festival in Annandale-on-Hudson, NY? The performance was serviceable, but it seemed as though they cut a lot of text to make the work more palatable for PCers. Tellingly, Professor Gibbs, who gave the preconcert lecture, told me before the performance, "I really hate this piece."

Then he shouldn't have agreed to give the lecture. Let someone who likes the piece better talk about it.

Also, I should have thought that performance of the piece was obviously an appreciation of Prokofiev, and not any emulation of Lenin or Stalin, and that the piece could have been performed in toto without a dull audience taking offense at supposed Communist indoctrination.

No doubt these people want the library's copy of A Communist Manifesto burnt. Early and often.