Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

Started by Danny, April 07, 2007, 09:29:23 AM

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Nick

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 28, 2009, 03:39:56 PMWho was the "us" whom Honegger had in mind?  And when did he say this?  (I presume no later than the early '50s.)

Obviously, "us" means everybody. Of course, whenever anyone makes statements like this, they're a bit silly. Apparently, he wrote it sometime after Prokofiev died in the early fifties since Honneger died in 1955. Comes from Nestyev's biography of Prokofiev. Full quote,

"All of his works give evidence of a tremendous musical temperament which refused to be bound by any theoretical dogmas. He will remain for us the greatest figure of contemporary music."

It had always been my impression that many members of Les Six very greatly admired SSP, but I'd never seen a quote from one of them to this effect.

Catison

Quote from: Nick on June 28, 2009, 02:52:36 PM
Had anyone realized the extent to which Honneger idolized Prokofiev?

It turns out that he'd said that Prokofiev "would remain for us the greatest figure of contemporary music."

Funny, given that his second symphony and Le Pas d'Acer were heavily influenced by Pacific 231.
-Brett

Nick

Why would that be funny? It's said that Copland was influenced by Stravinsky, and look at all the nice things he said about him. Same with Walton and Shostakovich.

It's said that Shostakovich was heavily influenced by Prokofiev in a number of pieces, but there are many people out there who think that Shostakovich is "better" than Prokofiev. Poulenc likely influenced both Stravinsky and Prokofiev.

In the case of Le Pas d'Acier, Op.41 and the Symphony No.2, Op.40, I would definitely say that Prokofiev was trying to capitalize on what were relatively high stock values for machine-based music, so this is certainly influence in a way. I don't have enough expertise in music theory to figure out the extent to which he replicated certain harmonic techniques and patterns in orchestration in Pacific 231.

It's funny that I'd never even heard about that quote until I came across a particular page by someone named Bruce Turlish.

http://www.kith.org/jimmosk/turlish.html

He hadn't put in a citation on the Honneger quote, so I looked into the biographies, and there it was.

karlhenning

Quote from: Maciek on April 13, 2007, 05:10:34 AM
It's the CPO one, isn't it? I'm adding it to my wishlist then! ;D

Status update, Maciek;)

karlhenning

Quote from: AndyD. on April 21, 2007, 09:47:12 AM
Just discovered Profokiev, and his "Classical" symphony, last night. What a fantastic discovery!

And then Andy turned to Wagner . . . .

;)

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 03:34:47 AM
And then Andy turned to Wagner . . . .

;)

I guess I know which composer not to play at your funeral, Karl... :)
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

karlhenning

Let them sing only my own music at my funeral, please!

Haffner

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 09, 2009, 03:34:47 AM
And then Andy turned to Wagner . . . .

;)


Oh yeah, since then it's been almost all Wagner, Beethoven, Bruckner, Richard Strauss...a little Mahler, Copland, and Henning here and there.

tjguitar

#428
Chandos is reissuing a whole bunch of Jarvi Prokofiev next month:



The new erato

Does anybody know the version of the piano concertoes on Hyperion? Both discs are  currently on Hyperions half price sale (please, somebody buy me?), but probably only for a couple of days more.


Air

Quote from: tjguitar on July 26, 2009, 12:49:55 PM
Chandos is reissuing a whole bunch of Jarvi Prokofiev next month:




Looks great.  Is it possible to get this hunk in one set?
"Summit or death, either way, I win." ~ Robert Schumann

Nick

Quote from: erato on September 28, 2009, 10:32:09 PM
Does anybody know the version of the piano concertoes on Hyperion? Both discs are  currently on Hyperions half price sale (please, somebody buy me?), but probably only for a couple of days more.



Only know them by reputation. Supposed to be quite extraordinary. I wouldn't hesitate.

The new erato

Pity the offer did expire two days ago..... :'(

Drasko

Quote from: erato on October 01, 2009, 12:54:27 AM
Pity the offer did expire two days ago..... :'(

If it'll make you feel better, sidoze had them and thinks that while the 2nd is very good the rest is forgettable.

greg

A couple of interesting finds on youtube.
First, Prokofiev playing Rachmaninoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjutQ97DRhw

And, a recording of Chout that I haven't heard!  :o
(Rozhdestvensky, Moscow Radio Symphony)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSj7muyPkJY&feature=PlayList&p=C7FAC7087A1ABECD&index=0&playnext=1


Seriously, for any Prokofiev fan who hasn't heard Chout yet, you have to watch it now. It's one of his best works.
The sound in this recording isn't that great, but the performance isn't bad, either. It almost sounds the same as Jurowski, though maybe slightly less polished (a recording with excellent sound).

I also have to say, Chout is one of the very, very few (maybe out of only a couple of) works that sounds good from beginning to end, without any moment of boredom. It's also one of the best examples of melodic writing and orchestration I can think of. The only thing that prevents it from being one of my all-time favorite works might be the fact that it makes me feel absolutely nothing  ;D (besides maybe parts like the wild, exciting ending). But, of course, that's not a bad thing. It just sounds incredible throughout, that's all I can say.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Greg on October 29, 2009, 04:29:38 PM
I also have to say, Chout is one of the very, very few (maybe out of only a couple of) works that sounds good from beginning to end, without any moment of boredom. It's also one of the best examples of melodic writing and orchestration I can think of.

Well well well...this thread just inspired me to visit my local music store, and lo and behold, there was Rozhdestvensky's recording of Chout, a work unfamiliar to me. For 190 rubles (less than $6) I wasn't gonna pass it up.  :D

So now I've got some listening to look forward to this weekend....and I'm tempted to go back and get Rozh's Le Pas d'Acier too
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

greg

Quote from: Contents Under Pressure on October 30, 2009, 10:23:53 AM
Well well well...this thread just inspired me to visit my local music store, and lo and behold, there was Rozhdestvensky's recording of Chout, a work unfamiliar to me. For 190 rubles (less than $6) I wasn't gonna pass it up.  :D

So now I've got some listening to look forward to this weekend....and I'm tempted to go back and get Rozh's Le Pas d'Acier too
Awesome!  :)

jowcol

Agreed about Chout.  One of his very best.  Some of the more introverted passages are unforgettable.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

Benji

Quote from: erato on September 28, 2009, 10:32:09 PM
Does anybody know the version of the piano concertoes on Hyperion? Both discs are  currently on Hyperions half price sale (please, somebody buy me?), but probably only for a couple of days more.



IIRC, at the time of listening (over 3 years ago now) I thought the 2nd was far, far too heavy. I want to say plodding, but i'm having a 'is that an even a real word?' moment. If it is, then that's what it I think, if it isn't you'll have to imagine what I mean by it.  ;)


Nick

What's really too bad is that Chout isn't going to be staged by New York City Ballet this season or the next for that matter. There was a back and forth between the Prokofiev estate as to whether to use the suite version or the entire score. They say it's been postponed, but the choreographer has instead chosen to do another full-length ballet.

I do fear that the momentum has been lost, especially since we're at the end of the centenary of the ballet russe. Nevertheless, I did get to see not only some of the designs for Chout at the Diaghilev exhibition in New York City over the summer, but they'd also reconstructed a costume piece from Chout based on designs for an abandoned reconstruction project by the Joffrey Ballet.

In other news, it seems that Princeton University with Simon Morrison mounted a production of the Gymnastic Exercises over the summer. Great music and totally unavailable of course, but I didn't get the see the production.

The neglect of Chout, it goes without saying, is absurd.