Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

Started by Danny, April 07, 2007, 09:29:23 AM

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karlhenning

The Krainev/Kitaenko set was my first. (Well, I suppose my absolute first was a set of Vox LPs way back, to which I don't even recall listening.) I like the K/K series well enough, and in fact, I am grateful to it for having illumined for me the Fifth Concerto, which (perhaps strange to say) the Richter recording somehow did not.

My favorite is probably the Béroff/Masur set with the Gewandhausorchest, although I certainly also like the Järvi set (which is well superior to his symphony set IMO).  This week I've been listening (again, and yet closer) to the Browning/Leinsdorf reissue, and I like it a great deal.

Fact is, I think these are all good sets.  For some intangibles, perhaps, again: my favorite is probably the Béroff/Masur.

not edward

In the context of that post, a comment from a pianist friend of mine that's stuck with me for a long time. Probably paraphrasing a little, but the sense should be clear:

"The reason people never win piano competitions with Prokofiev is that everyone knows the music is so well-written for the instrument that it almost plays itself. So it's easy to give a good performance of the works--what the judges forget sometimes is that it's still very hard to give a great performance of them."
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 12, 2011, 07:09:18 PM
I'm starting to second guess a lot of what Gergiev does interpretatively and have to say that 9 times out of 10 his interpretative choices do not coincide with how I think the work should sound. Anyway, not to turn this into a Gergiev rant, but the guy is so damn inconsistent and leaves me puzzled half of the time as to why he just can't get his act together. Is it the case of spreading himself too thin? Perhaps...

Spreading himself thing could be something of a liability for Gergiev but he did do some wonderful work early in his career which stands as his crowning achievement on disc: his Russian opera series on Philips. Notably, his enthusiasm for the genre spread beyond the mainstream workhorse works to include some fascinating rarities, particularly the operas of Prokofiev.

Which brings me to the point of this post: No one's mentioned the operas in a while!! 8) Despite their obscurity they are central to Prokofiev's output.




[asin]B0033KR5YS[/asin]


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 08:32:19 AM

Which brings me to the point of this post: No one's mentioned the operas in a while!! 8) Despite their obscurity they are central to Prokofiev's output.


Two of my favorite operas, which also translated into great symphonic works, and my choice for recording...


The new erato

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 08:32:19 AM
Spreading himself thing could be something of a liability for Gergiev but he did do some wonderful work early in his career which stands as his crowning achievement on disc: his Russian opera series on Philips. Notably, his enthusiasm for the genre spread beyond the mainstream workhorse works to include some fascinating rarities, particularly the operas of Prokofiev.


Quote from: The new erato on October 07, 2011, 07:55:42 AM
The great thing about Gegiev is the Russian (and Soviet) operas he's given us. Unfortunately, that seems to be a thing of the past.

Dancing Divertimentian

 8)
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Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 20, 2008, 07:15:18 PM
A large portion of Gergiev's recorded output consists of opera - in particular the Russian Opera Series on Philips. It's quite an expansive series and his consistency throughout the nine eleven operas I'm lucky to have from it is amazing. 

This is where it all began for Gergiev on records and really no overview of his work is complete without consideration of this series.

It's gotten nothing but good press as far as I can tell and picking from it is as easy as throwing a dart - wherever it lands you have a winner.

It's undoubtedly Gergiev's crowning achievement on disc.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: edward on October 13, 2011, 08:10:00 AM
Sounds like Krainev's view of the work may have much in common with Baloghova (Browning also shares much of Baloghova's attributes, I think). Another view I've heard that was very similar was Severin von Eckhardstein's when he didn't win the Leeds--Angela Hewitt said that it was the best performance she'd ever heard of the work, and I was inclined to agree, though I'd not heard Baloghova at that point in time. I'd still like to hear him make a commercial recording of the work.

I'll have to checkout Baloghova and Browning...

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 08:32:19 AMSpreading himself thing could be something of a liability for Gergiev but he did do some wonderful work early in his career which stands as his crowning achievement on disc: his Russian opera series on Philips. Notably, his enthusiasm for the genre spread beyond the mainstream workhorse works to include some fascinating rarities, particularly the operas of Prokofiev.

I don't doubt his contributions to Russian classical music, I just don't care for the way he's been plowing through one work after another without, what seems to me, much care. As I said, after listening to the Ozawa recording of Romeo & Juliet, I doubt I can listen to Gergiev's LSO Live recording now. Again, his interpretative choices here in the past few years have been completely dumbfounding to me. His Mahler series was disappointing and his Debussy La Mer recording doesn't even stack up against second-tier performances.

I have a feeling that Paavo Jarvi is spreading himself too thinly as well. He seems to move from one composer to the next without much thought about the repertoire, the history of that composer, and the overall catalog of performances that have happened before his own. Anyway, P. Jarvi is another topic for another time.

Back to Prokofiev....

Dancing Divertimentian

#768
Quote from: Mirror Image on October 13, 2011, 06:13:52 PM
I don't doubt his contributions to Russian classical music. I just don't care for the way he's been plowing through one work after another without, what seems to me, much care. As I said, after listening to the Ozawa recording of Romeo & Juliet, I doubt I can listen to Gergiev's LSO Live recording now. Again, his interpretative choices here in the past few years have been completely dumbfounding to me. His Mahler series was disappointing and his Debussy La Mer recording doesn't even stack up against second-tier performances.

I don't claim to know anything about Gergiev aside from what Prokofiev and Shostakovich of his I have. So whether or not his conducting skills have declined since his earlier days on record I wouldn't know. Don't care, either.

Because in the end my attempt at spreading the word about Prokofiev's operas has little to do with Gergiev.

The focus of my comments is to shed light on a virtually unknown slice of Prokofiev's output: his great operas.

Perhaps Gergiev's flame has dimmed, but like I said I really wouldn't know. What's important however is what was Gergiev's form at the time of these recordings!!

Personally I hear great things in these recordings. I hear preparation. I hear integrity. I hear total immersion in the music. What this means to Prokofiev is that his musical vision gets total advocacy. And really that's all I care about.

What Gergiev's doing now isn't of any interest to me at all.

So...GO PROKOFIEV!!!  ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 07:50:48 PM
I don't claim to know anything about Gergiev aside from what Prokofiev and Shostakovich of his I have. So whether or not his conducting skills have declined since his earlier days on record I wouldn't know. Don't care, either.

Because in the end my attempt at spreading the word about Prokofiev's operas has little to do with Gergiev.

The focus of my comments is to shed light on a virtually unknown slice of Prokofiev's output: his great operas.

Perhaps Gergiev's flame has dimmed, but like I said I really wouldn't know. What's important however is what was Gergiev's form at the time of these recordings!!

Personally I hear great things in these recordings. I hear preparation. I hear integrity. I hear total immersion in the music. What this means to Prokofiev is that his musical vision gets total advocacy. And really that's all I care about.

What Gergiev's doing now isn't of any interest to me at all.

So...GO PROKOFIEV!!! ;D

My, my aren't we a little touchy tonight?

Mirror Image

Prokofiev's operas never interested me. Don't know why, but then again, I don't really care to examine the reasons of why I never cared to explore them.

Anyway, I have enough Prokofiev recordings on the way to keep me busy for awhile...

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 13, 2011, 08:25:19 PM
My, my aren't we a little touchy tonight?

Where do you see "touchy"?

Oh, it must've been here:


Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 07:50:48 PM
So...GO PROKOFIEV!!!  ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 08:34:49 PM
Where do you see "touchy"?

Oh, it must've been here:

I just think you were getting an unnecessary attitude with me when all I was doing was making conversation with you. Perhaps you don't think you did, but it just seemed like you were being a little defensive when there were no reason to be.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 13, 2011, 08:52:55 PM
I just think you were getting an unnecessary attitude with me when all I was doing was making conversation with you. Perhaps you don't think you did, but it just seemed like you were being a little defensive when there were no reason to be.

Attitude check stops here: ;D



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Attitude check stops here: ;D

No, need to worry, my friend. I understand you're passionate about this music and that inspires me.

TheGSMoeller

Here's some early Prokofiev passion not to be ignored.


http://www.youtube.com/v/i6AhHBu_A_U

Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 13, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
Here's some early Prokofiev passion not to be ignored.


http://www.youtube.com/v/i6AhHBu_A_U

I know that picture of Argerich can't be ignored. She was such a babe when she was younger.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 13, 2011, 09:07:41 PM
No, need to worry, my friend. I understand you're passionate about this music and that inspires me.

I do perhaps get a little intense at times. But I'd sure hate to put anybody off. :)


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 13, 2011, 09:21:54 PM
I do perhaps get a little intense at times. But I'd sure hate to put anybody off. :)

Don't worry about it. All is forgiven.

So what do you, DD, think about Le pas l'arcier? I've heard excerpts from this ballet (courtesy of Jarvi/Chandos) and thought the music packed a heavy duty punch.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 13, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
Here's some early Prokofiev passion not to be ignored.


http://www.youtube.com/v/i6AhHBu_A_U

Ah, the Op.11 Toccata! Fantastic piece. Thanks for posting GS.



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach