Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

[Mirror Image]

http://www.youtube.com/v/BUNdSRVxC-Y&feature=related

Prokofiev: Symphony No.7, movement IV
Ozawa/Berlin Phil.

Although I still believe Tennstedt recorded the best 7th, this Ozawa comes very close. Here is the 4th movement with Prokofiev's original, and more dramatic, ending, the way I promote it should be heard. In order to win a Stalin Prize, Prokofiev
added an extra 20 seconds to offer a more uplifting ending, I've read that Prokofiev was not very well off towards the end of his life so this could have been the motivation for this addition.
Also, the fact that it was commissioned for a children's program shouldn't give a first time listener any direction on it's musical quality, at it's heart it is very dramatic and quite lovely, it's more Romeo & Juliet than say, Peter and the Wolf.

Symphonies 5-7 are my favorite of the cycle. I need to go back to listen to 2-4. I listened to Symphony No. 2 a few nights ago and it's an interesting work. I'm not sure if I truly like it or not, but Jarvi's performance was very convincing.

[TheGSMoeller]

Symphonies 5-7 are my favorite of the cycle. I need to go back to listen to 2-4. I listened to Symphony No. 2 a few nights ago and it's an interesting work. I'm not sure if I truly like it or not, but Jarvi's performance was very convincing.

What I find great about Prokofiev's symphonies, MI, is that they are so convincingly unique and complete individuals. A little something for everyone.
You should definitely give no.2-4 more time, I think you'll appreciate them. I've always been so impressed with No.3 and Prokofiev's ability for turning a great opera (The Fiery Angel) into a great symphony.
How he arranged the music from the opera into a working 4 movements without sticking with the chronological order of the story, for example the ending of the 4th movement of the symphony is the closing scene from Act 2 of the opera, and the
3rd movement is from Act 5.
And having two versions, and quite different I might add, of his 4th is also a treat.

[ibanezmonster]

Does anyone know what happened to Prokofiev's op.88 Symphonic March?

The only place on the internet I can even find a score of it is:
http://www.schirmer.com/default.aspx?TabId=2420&State_2874=2&workId_2874=31733#

And of course, there's not a single recording anywhere. Is this a false entry and the score was destroyed or lost?... or does nobody not care at all? (sort of hard to believe)

[Mirror Image]

What I find great about Prokofiev's symphonies, MI, is that they are so convincingly unique and complete individuals. A little something for everyone.
You should definitely give no.2-4 more time, I think you'll appreciate them. I've always been so impressed with No.3 and Prokofiev's ability for turning a great opera (The Fiery Angel) into a great symphony.
How he arranged the music from the opera into a working 4 movements without sticking with the chronological order of the story, for example the ending of the 4th movement of the symphony is the closing scene from Act 2 of the opera, and the
3rd movement is from Act 5.
And having two versions, and quite different I might add, of his 4th is also a treat.

Yes, I do need to spend more time with the early symphonies, but I don't like the Classical Symphony at all. I understand it is Prokofiev being sarcastic, but I still haven't warmed up to the work at all.

[karlhenning]

I understand it is Prokofiev being sarcastic, but I still haven't warmed up to the work at all.

I don't think of it as overall a sarcastic work, nor even in any great measure.  He had been studying Haydn in a conducting class at the Conservatory, and he was engaged with the idiom.

[madaboutmahler]

I don't think of it as overall a sarcastic work, nor even in any great measure.  He had been studying Haydn in a conducting class at the Conservatory, and he was engaged with the idiom.

Maybe not written as a joke (as such), but still a very sarcastic sounding piece! I always enjoy listening to it.

[Mirror Image]

I don't think of it as overall a sarcastic work, nor even in any great measure.  He had been studying Haydn in a conducting class at the Conservatory, and he was engaged with the idiom.

Perhaps this is why I don't enjoy it, it's a schtick of the Classical Era.

[madaboutmahler]

Perhaps this is why I don't enjoy it, it's a schtick of the Classical Era.

But for me, a very enjoyable one with many humorous twists

[Mirror Image]

But for me, a very enjoyable one with many humorous twists

There's better Prokofiev to be heard IMHO.

[madaboutmahler]

There's better Prokofiev to be heard IMHO.

Of course, I'll agree with that. I still find it a wonderful piece though

[karlhenning]

Of course, I'll agree with that. I still find it a wonderful piece though

Exactly. Fine music, which doesn't need to be bludgeoned by subsequent triumphs : )

[bhodges]

I don't think of it as overall a sarcastic work, nor even in any great measure.  He had been studying Haydn in a conducting class at the Conservatory, and he was engaged with the idiom.

Yes, "different ears" and all that, but I don't hear any sarcasm, either. It's a beautifully constructed, Haydn-esque piece, with - if anything - more outright love for the classical era. I enjoy this piece in the same vein as say, Stravinsky's Dumbarton Oaks.

--Bruce

[not edward]

MI, a few random thoughts in re: the earlier symphonies:

The 3rd seems to me the most fully successful of them. It may not be organically symphonic, but it IMO doesn't greatly betray its origin in parts of The Fiery Angel; the dramatic arc of the piece is utterly convincing to me; I'd certainly regard it as 'essential' Prokofiev. By contrast, I've never warmed up to the 4th; the problem I have with it is that the music isn't so distinct from that of its source material (the superb ballet L'enfant prodigue) and remains more balletic than symphonic.

I think it's easy to underrate the first two symphonies; perhaps the 1st does fall between pastiche and parody, but its genial good humour I find very winning (something it has in common with much of the Sinfonietta and Divertissement). The 2nd seems to be the most obviously problematic of the seven; it's easy for me to feel Prokofiev had to a certain extent bitten off more than he could chew in this work (the Beethoven op 111 model being an outrageously ambitious one to follow). Unfortunately, I think the ferocity of the first movement tends to cast a long shadow over the second movement set of variations, which have a kind of nocturnal lyricism that definitely prefigures some of the later works. Clearly Prokofiev felt there was plenty of good material in the work, as at his death he had already assigned an opus number for a never-begun revision of it. I'd have been really interested to hear what he had in mind with the work; the mind boggles at a Symphony-Concerto-sized rewrite in his late style might have achieved with this material.

[Mirror Image]

MI, a few random thoughts in re: the earlier symphonies:

The 3rd seems to me the most fully successful of them. It may not be organically symphonic, but it IMO doesn't greatly betray its origin in parts of The Fiery Angel; the dramatic arc of the piece is utterly convincing to me; I'd certainly regard it as 'essential' Prokofiev. By contrast, I've never warmed up to the 4th; the problem I have with it is that the music isn't so distinct from that of its source material (the superb ballet L'enfant prodigue) and remains more balletic than symphonic.

I think it's easy to underrate the first two symphonies; perhaps the 1st does fall between pastiche and parody, but its genial good humour I find very winning (something it has in common with much of the Sinfonietta and Divertissement). The 2nd seems to be the most obviously problematic of the seven; it's easy for me to feel Prokofiev had to a certain extent bitten off more than he could chew in this work (the Beethoven op 111 model being an outrageously ambitious one to follow). Unfortunately, I think the ferocity of the first movement tends to cast a long shadow over the second movement set of variations, which have a kind of nocturnal lyricism that definitely prefigures some of the later works. Clearly Prokofiev felt there was plenty of good material in the work, as at his death he had already assigned an opus number for a never-begun revision of it. I'd have been really interested to hear what he had in mind with the work; the mind boggles at a Symphony-Concerto-sized rewrite in his late style might have achieved with this material.

Thanks for you feedback. I need to give the Classical Symphony more of a fighting chance I suppose. It does have some good moments. Symphony No. 2 is a tough nut to crack, but it has some fascinating rhythms and harmonies. As I stated before, Jarvi's performance was quite convincing for me. It's not a bad work at all. I just haven't made that emotional connection with it yet. Symphony No. 3 I've liked ever since I heard Riccardo Muti's recording of it on Philips, which is out-of-print unfortunately. He did a great job with it and the music truly speaks for itself. I never cared much for the 4th either, I would just rather listen to The Prodigal Son.

[Hattoff]

Does anyone know what happened to Prokofiev's op.88 Symphonic March?

The only place on the internet I can even find a score of it is:
http://www.schirmer.com/default.aspx?TabId=2420&State_2874=2&workId_2874=31733#

And of course, there's not a single recording anywhere. Is this a false entry and the score was destroyed or lost?... or does nobody not care at all? (sort of hard to believe)

I have copies of the sketches for op 88. It's quite a jollyish piece, it starts contrapuntally then moves into one of the songs from op 89 and then to a Peter/Wolfish march and then finishing typically noisily. It lasts only four minutes.

It was written for WW11 propaganda purposes but is harmless. I can see no reason while it and several other scores remain unpublished, it's just daft IMO.

I have synthesised it, but that is probably best kept to myself. If you want a copy of the sketches you are welcome just PM me

[Dancing Divertimentian]

And then there are the operas, from the quixotic:




http://www.youtube.com/v/nv5cKG5ADuM




To the lyrical:



http://www.youtube.com/v/dRZNKuipAac

[snyprrr]

Thanks for you feedback. I need to give the Classical Symphony more of a fighting chance I suppose. It does have some good moments. Symphony No. 2 is a tough nut to crack, but it has some fascinating rhythms and harmonies. As I stated before, Jarvi's performance was quite convincing for me. It's not a bad work at all. I just haven't made that emotional connection with it yet. Symphony No. 3 I've liked ever since I heard Riccardo Muti's recording of it on Philips, which is out-of-print unfortunately. He did a great job with it and the music truly speaks for itself. I never cared much for the 4th either, I would just rather listen to The Prodigal Son.

I finally got around to TheTwoFours on the Gergiev set. I didn't read the notes, not knowing it came from The Prodigal Son; but, as I listened, I did enjoy it as lush ballet music. I think I liked the revision better. Nice ballet music!

[DavidRoss]

I don't think of it as overall a sarcastic work, nor even in any great measure.  He had been studying Haydn in a conducting class at the Conservatory, and he was engaged with the idiom.

A lovely work, along with Ives's 1st a fine example of a gifted young composer who had thoroughly absorbed the lessons of his craft. 
Think I'll seek a nice recording on Mog to play at work.

[snyprrr]

Got Jarvi's Suites from 'Chout' 'Pas' & 'Oranges'...

I'm starting to think Prokofiev sounds like Russian Christmas Ballet Music... all of it! It all reminds me of the incidental music to a heart warming saga. So much sounds to me like 'Coronation of Some Great Asian King'... or even 'Klingon Music', that kind of music given to the witch's guards in The Wizard of Oz.

[ibanezmonster]

For anyone who is interested in collecting rare Prokofiev, this link has tons:

http://classical-music-online.net/en/composer/Prokofiev/293


You do have to register with the site to download (it's free), and you do have to wait in-between downloads, but some of this stuff you won't find anywhere else.

I recommend starting with the full op.7...