Prokofiev's Paddy Wagon

Started by Danny, April 07, 2007, 09:29:23 AM

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not edward

Quote from: karlhenning on May 17, 2012, 08:27:31 AM
How does everyone feel about the Ashkenazy set of the piano concerti?  As compared with others.

TIA.

I couldn't really recommend it.

This was my first complete set of the concerti, and though it did good service for a while, I'd rate it a distinctly lower-grade priority than, say, Beroff or Browning. It's not so much anything bad about the set (though Ashkenazy does bang away at the keyboard at times), simply that while all the performances are quite acceptable, none of them catch fire in the way that the best performances do.

(For my money, these far-higher-priority individual recordings would include Richter and Moravec in the 1st; Browning and Baloghova* in the 2nd; Prokofiev* in the 3rd; Browning and--if my memory serves, me, as it has been many years--Paik in the 4th; Richter/Rowicki* in the 5th.)

* - these would be my votes for the greatest Prokofiev piano concerto recordings I've ever heard. Would like to hear Severin von Eckardstein make a commercial recording of the 2nd, though.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

eyeresist

I've thought about getting the Ashkenazy/Previn set over the years, but as I am very satisfied with Beroff/Masur plus Richter/Rowicki for the 5th, and there is so much unheard music still to buy, I haven't got around to it. I think I'd probably buy the Krainev/Kitajenko set mentioned by MI first (it's cheaper!).

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on May 17, 2012, 06:59:47 PM
I've thought about getting the Ashkenazy/Previn set over the years, but as I am very satisfied with Beroff/Masur plus Richter/Rowicki for the 5th, and there is so much unheard music still to buy, I haven't got around to it. I think I'd probably buy the Krainev/Kitajenko set mentioned by MI first (it's cheaper!).

Just remember something being cheaper doesn't always translate to it being better. :) But this is one of those instances where it actually does. :D

eyeresist

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2012, 07:01:44 PMJust remember something being cheaper doesn't always translate to it being better. :)

True - but being more expensive doesn't necessarily make something better either. So, on balance, cheaper is better ;)

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on May 17, 2012, 07:18:45 PM
True - but being more expensive doesn't necessarily make something better either. So, on balance, cheaper is better ;)

Well that is true too. Not meaning to get this off-topic, but what do you consider expensive for a CD?

eyeresist

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2012, 07:26:36 PMWell that is true too. Not meaning to get this off-topic, but what do you consider expensive for a CD?

I guess that depends on how badly I want it!

For singles, $10 and under is ideal, though I'll stretch to mid-teens if there's no alternative. $17-31 - I'd have to REALLY want it. Over $31, I'll do without it.

For boxsets, it has to be under $10 per disc.

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on May 17, 2012, 07:44:40 PM
I guess that depends on how badly I want it!

For singles, $10 and under is ideal, though I'll stretch to mid-teens if there's no alternative. $17-31 - I'd have to REALLY want it. Over $31, I'll do without it.

For boxsets, it has to be under $10 per disc.

I thnk the most I've ever paid for a single CD was $20, but it was out-of-print and I desperately wanted it. I don't remember what recording it was unfortunately.

eyeresist

If I was in the US I'd be scouring the Amazon marketplace like you, but having sellers ship individual items to Australia is rather expensive, and with the reliability question on top of that, I don't think it's worth bothering with.

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on May 17, 2012, 08:11:51 PM
If I was in the US I'd be scouring the Amazon marketplace like you, but having sellers ship individual items to Australia is rather expensive, and with the reliability question on top of that, I don't think it's worth bothering with.

Yeah, I think it's unfortunate that Australia doesn't have an Amazon website yet.

eyeresist

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2012, 08:50:43 PMYeah, I think it's unfortunate that Australia doesn't have an Amazon website yet.

Sadly, I don't think that'd make much difference. There's always a big "middle man" mark-up to pay here, just because distributors know they can get away with it. That includes for people buying games from Steam (from what I hear).

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 17, 2012, 07:01:44 PM

Quote from: eyeresist on May 17, 2012, 06:59:47 PM
I've thought about getting the Ashkenazy/Previn set over the years, but as I am very satisfied with Beroff/Masur plus Richter/Rowicki for the 5th, and there is so much unheard music still to buy, I haven't got around to it. I think I'd probably buy the Krainev/Kitajenko set mentioned by MI first (it's cheaper!).

Just remember something being cheaper doesn't always translate to it being better. :) But this is one of those instances where it actually does. :D

Just to be clear (and clearly this is IMO), the Krainev set is cheap (as is the Béroff).  As for better, however, I find the Béroff set the better of the two.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

And thanks, John, Edward, divertimentian and resist for your feedback viz. Ashkenazy!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

(Bringing this over from the Piano Sonatas thread.)

Quote from: eyeresist on May 13, 2012, 06:34:11 PM

Quote from: karlhenning on May 11, 2012, 03:45:04 AM
Man, if you can speak eloquently on behalf of the Third and Fourth, I should attend your word closely.  I like them, but they do not spark my musical passion in the way the others do.

What, not even the scherzo of the 3rd? That's some of my favourite of all Prokofiev!

I've always really liked stuff in both symphonies;  my brain seems to resist thinking of them as (to coin a fraze) symphonies-en-soi.

To-day, though, the Leinsdorf/BSO recording of the Third from April 1966 has crushed all my puny doubts. Wow!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

North Star

This Jurowski & LPO recording of the 3rd Symphony sounds excellent to me:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sb-Za03C1xI
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

not edward

Quote from: karlhenning on May 18, 2012, 04:42:47 AM
To-day, though, the Leinsdorf/BSO recording of the Third from April 1966 has crushed all my puny doubts. Wow![/font]
Do you know the Concertgebouw/Kondrashin Third? It's my go-to recording for this work--brings out both the lyrical and the apocalyptic sides to the work so well (and I find it's really easy to underestimate how much lyrical material there is in this symphony).

Which isn't to say that I don't like the BSO/Leinsdorf recording--if the Kondrashin didn't exist I'm sure he and Rozhdestvensky would leave me very happy in the work.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: North Star on May 18, 2012, 05:19:06 AM
This Jurowski & LPO recording of the 3rd Symphony sounds excellent to me:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sb-Za03C1xI


Thanks for sharing, would have loved to been in that audience.



Quote from: edward on May 18, 2012, 04:00:43 PM
Do you know the Concertgebouw/Kondrashin Third? It's my go-to recording for this work--brings out both the lyrical and the apocalyptic sides to the work so well (and I find it's really easy to underestimate how much lyrical material there is in this symphony).


I agree Edward, there is much lyricism to appreciate in this symphony, and in the related opera.
I tend to go back and forth from Muti/Philia and Chailly/Concertgebouw, Muti offers a "take-no-prisoners" approach, a demonic powerhouse, while Chailly is intense but the recording holds back a bit on the fortissimo and many lines and instruments that get hidden from the brass and percussion from Muti and even Jarvi's account, are clear and well defined here.

It has become clear to me in recent years, that I find Prokofiev to have offered the best symphony cycle of the 20th Century, everyone of them delivers a different style and timbre, play any two back-to-back and you'll understand. Even the two 4ths, Op. 47 and Op. 112, feel unique to each other, take the endings for example, Op. 47 rushes towards a jarringly abrupt canon-like chord finale, while Op. 112's addition could successfully close one of Shostakovich's grand symphonies.

In fact, it may be time to start a post solely dedicated to the Prokofiev 8....


Edit:...and I just found it.  ;D

eyeresist

Quote from: karlhenning on May 18, 2012, 04:42:47 AMI've always really liked stuff in both symphonies;  my brain seems to resist thinking of them as (to coin a fraze) symphonies-en-soi.

To-day, though, the Leinsdorf/BSO recording of the Third from April 1966 has crushed all my puny doubts. Wow!

Glad to hear it - though you make it sound like an encounter with the Incredible Hulk  :o

As ever, I recommend Kuchar for 2, 3 and 4.

Karl Henning

I spent yesterday in Rest Mode, in hopes of staving off one of those freak colds that can afflict a New Englander during this season of uncertain warmth.  Where that turns relevant to the thread, though, is that while vegging, I loaded a passel of Сергей Сергеевич music onto the player.  And lo! what should I find, but that I have seven different versions of the c minor Symphony!  Two of them conducted by Rozhdestvensky . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2012, 04:56:43 AM
And lo! what should I find, but that I have seven different versions of the c minor Symphony!  Two of them conducted by Rozhdestvensky . . . .[/font]

I'm jealous, I have seven too, but only one by Rozh  ;D  Think I'll listen now to one I've not yet heard.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2012, 04:56:43 AM
I spent yesterday in Rest Mode, in hopes of staving off one of those freak colds that can afflict a New Englander during this season of uncertain warmth.  Where that turns relevant to the thread, though, is that while vegging, I loaded a passel of Сергей Сергеевич music onto the player.  And lo! what should I find, but that I have seven different versions of the c minor Symphony!  Two of them conducted by Rozhdestvensky . . . .


What other recordings do you own, Karl?
And good morning!