Author Topic: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956  (Read 21733 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2011, 12:27:42 AM »

#3 Vienna Philharmonic / Herbert von Karajan (late 40s, EMI)
Driven, hard-hitting, brutal, dark and violent vision from Karajan.

 

Exactly the same qualities here.

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Drasko

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2011, 02:33:52 AM »
I'm not so sure I'm looking for those qualities in Quintet, now G Major Quartet, that could be nice.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2011, 06:57:49 AM »
I must say that until you made that comment I had kind of assumed in my subconscious that the quintet and the G major quartet were of the same ilk, probably along with winterreise and the 2nd trio and the 9th symphony and the last sonatas.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2011, 10:05:39 PM »
To me the great versions are the Weller Quartet with Gurtler, perhaps the most natural and with a sublime phrasing, and the more dramatic and tense version of the Juilliard with Greenhouse (one of the most inspired recordings ever made by the Juilliard).

The Amadeus with Pleeth would be in third place.

I have the Juilliard with Greenhouse (which I love) and the Weller Quartet (I assume there's only one: I haven't checked who's playing the extra cello.) What's interesting is that I see them completely differently from you, Val. Weller sounds dramatic to me.

But the Juiliiard's  is something completely different: rapt, introspective, stunning intonation. There's a video where Glenn Gould talks about how some of Schubert's music is shy, timid. Well, that's how I see this Juilliard interpretation of the quintet -- reticent, like something recoiling into itself, and tinged with enormous melancholy.

I should add that I'm listening to both in mp3 -- that will make some difference to what I am hearing of course.

The important thing is that we both love the Juilliard's.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 08:13:22 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Herman

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2011, 10:45:12 PM »
There's a video where Glenn Gould talks about how some of Schubert's music is shy, timid. Well, that's how I see this Juilliard interpretation of the quintet -- reticent, like something recoiling into itself, and tinged with enormous melancholy.
.

Of course the first part of the slow mvt invites that 'shy, timid' reading, but I would say there is too much in the quintet (and in most late Schubert) that is really huge and bursting at the seams to allow this to be the verdict. Plus there's plenty of jolly café music, too in the last mvt.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2011, 11:03:05 PM »
Of course the first part of the slow mvt invites that 'shy, timid' reading, but I would say there is too much in the quintet (and in most late Schubert) that is really huge and bursting at the seams to allow this to be the verdict. Plus there's plenty of jolly café music, too in the last mvt.

In the Juilliard's CD it was the first movement especially that made me think of that Gould comment.

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Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2014, 04:06:51 PM »
So this is quickly becoming a part of the list of pieces that I must find the perfect recording of, which consists of me purchasing as many as possible (along with Haydn's Farewell, Bruckner's 6th to name a few...) then of course realizing there is no perfect recording. So far I own L'Archibudelli, Borodin String Quartet, Melos String Quartet, Villa Musica Ensemble, Takács String Quartet and my current favorite The Lindsays.

Looking at few others at the moment, wanted some feedback if possible on which ones might offer a little contrast to what I already own. I don't prefer one type of interpretation over another in terms of tempo, overly Romantic or Classical influenced, HIP or MI, etc.
One of these that I'm strongly considering I noticed a reviewer, whos name I've misspelled as Brain before, called it, "not an odd duck but a beautiful swan"  ;) From what I've heard I tend to agree.

     
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:14:22 AM by TheGSMoeller »

DavidW

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2014, 04:30:50 PM »
My favorite is Schiff/ABQ.  Might be too similar to what you already have though.


Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2014, 05:48:26 PM »
So this is quickly becoming a part of the list of pieces that I must find the perfect recording of, which insists of me purchasing as many as possible (along with Haydn's Farewell, Bruckner's 6th to name a few...) then of course realizing there is no perfect recording. So far I own L'Archibudelli, Borodin String Quartet, Melos String Quartet, Villa Musica Ensemble, Takács String Quartet and my current favorite The Lindsays.

I don't own any of these on your list GS (in the quintet) but knowing the characteristics of all of these groups (save L'Archibudelli) in other recordings I can say with confidence there's one recording that should fit the bill as far as "contrasting":


 



The Sine Nomine Quartet has a rich, husky, darkly hued sound which is very distinctive and quite unlike any of the groups on your list. They have a nice spread to their sound as well - they're not diminutive by nature, that's for sure.

Unfortunately this recording is only available these days as a CDR from US Amazon but the physical CD is still available on the overseas Amazons.

For maxim in dexterity, crispness, and "airiness" the Hollywood Quartet is also a good bet for something appropriately alternative. They're from an earlier generation so expect the occasional use of portamento, which separates the group even further from the pack:







Lastly, probably my favorite is the Hagen Quartet version. Much of what this group records resonates with me in a big way. They're not afraid to take risks but all the while the sense of refinement is striking. It's as if they rehearse everything till it's in their bones and then just go out and let it all hang out in performance. But not in an attempt to bludgeon anyone:



 



« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 06:04:10 PM by Dancing Divertimentian »
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2014, 06:27:35 PM »
I don't own any of these on your list GS (in the quintet) but knowing the characteristics of all of these groups (save L'Archibudelli) in other recordings I can say with confidence there's one recording that should fit the bill as far as "contrasting":

The Sine Nomine Quartet has a rich, husky, darkly hued sound which is very distinctive and quite unlike any of the groups on your list. They have a nice spread to their sound as well - they're not diminutive by nature, that's for sure.

Unfortunately this recording is only available these days as a CDR from US Amazon but the physical CD is still available on the overseas Amazons.

For maxim in dexterity, crispness, and "airiness" the Hollywood Quartet is also a good bet for something appropriately alternative. They're from an earlier generation so expect the occasional use of portamento, which separates the group even further from the pack:


Lastly, probably my favorite is the Hagen Quartet version. Much of what this group records resonates with me in a big way. They're not afraid to take risks but all the while the sense of refinement is striking. It's as if they rehearse everything till it's in their bones and then just go out and let it all hang out in performance. But not in an attempt to bludgeon anyone:


Great! Thanks, DD, for the recs and exceptional illustrations of the performances. The Hollywood Quartet sounds particularly interesting, but I'm sure I will be searching to at least sample all three.  ;D

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2014, 06:30:59 PM »
My favorite is Schiff/ABQ.  Might be too similar to what you already have though.



Thanks, David, I see the Berg Q. is available on Spotify. I think I've heard it before, I certainly recognize the cover art.

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2014, 06:48:58 PM »
My favorite is Schiff/ABQ.  Might be too similar to what you already have though.


Just noticed that Schiff accompanies in the both the Alban Berg and the Hagen versions. He must really like the piece. ;D


« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 07:00:02 PM by Dancing Divertimentian »
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2014, 06:50:11 PM »
Great! Thanks, DD, for the recs and exceptional illustrations of the performances. The Hollywood Quartet sounds particularly interesting, but I'm sure I will be searching to at least sample all three.  ;D

It's a great piece to be addicted to. :)


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Offline Brian

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2014, 06:55:09 PM »
Well, Greg, I recognize that quote so you know how I feel about the Diotima/Gastinel! The Raphael Ensemble is probably my favorite overall right now; the Pavel Haas Quartet's new album is superb too, but with sliiightly too reverberant sound. Of course, I am very very picky about recordings of this quintet.

What I have is...
Raphael Ensemble - totally excellent, heartfelt, in good sound
Auryn Quartet, Christian Poltera - technically flawless, but a little too "perfect" or perhaps insufficiently emotional
Pavel Haas Quartet, Danjulo Ishizaka - another top choice, hugely emotional journey, slightly reverby
Vogler Quartet, Daniel Muller-Schott - pretty darn good all around, probably my favorite that's on Naxos Music Library
Alban Berg Quartet, Heinrich Schiff - the sound is just too old and thin for me, and omitting the repeat is heinous!
Emerson Quartet, Rostropovich - just came in, waiting to be played!
Cleveland Quartet, Yo-Yo Ma - have only heard once, seems pretty solid
Belcea Quartet - bloodless, swift, do not recommend unless you're into that
Diotima, Gastinel - big, romantic, exaggerated, unusual but irresistible
Whoever the performers are on Vivarte - pretty good period instruments account, and can be had in a 5 CD box for about $15
Whoever the performers are on Fuga Libera, paired with an Arpeggione Sonata - I heard this a few years ago and liked it, but it's been a while

The Pavel Haas Quartet and Ishizaka live at Wigmore Hall in 2011 is the first time I ever heard this piece, so I may be prejudiced in their favor? But they really are excellent and that was one of the great concerts of my life. This could possibly be my favorite work of chamber music - and like you, the hunt for The Perfect Recording continues...

Offline TheGSMoeller

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2014, 07:05:52 PM »
Well, Greg, I recognize that quote so you know how I feel about the Diotima/Gastinel! The Raphael Ensemble is probably my favorite overall right now; the Pavel Haas Quartet's new album is superb too, but with sliiightly too reverberant sound. Of course, I am very very picky about recordings of this quintet.

What I have is...
Raphael Ensemble - totally excellent, heartfelt, in good sound
Auryn Quartet, Christian Poltera - technically flawless, but a little too "perfect" or perhaps insufficiently emotional
Pavel Haas Quartet, Danjulo Ishizaka - another top choice, hugely emotional journey, slightly reverby
Vogler Quartet, Daniel Muller-Schott - pretty darn good all around, probably my favorite that's on Naxos Music Library
Alban Berg Quartet, Heinrich Schiff - the sound is just too old and thin for me, and omitting the repeat is heinous!
Emerson Quartet, Rostropovich - just came in, waiting to be played!
Cleveland Quartet, Yo-Yo Ma - have only heard once, seems pretty solid
Belcea Quartet - bloodless, swift, do not recommend unless you're into that
Diotima, Gastinel - big, romantic, exaggerated, unusual but irresistible
Whoever the performers are on Vivarte - pretty good period instruments account, and can be had in a 5 CD box for about $15
Whoever the performers are on Fuga Libera, paired with an Arpeggione Sonata - I heard this a few years ago and liked it, but it's been a while

The Pavel Haas Quartet and Ishizaka live at Wigmore Hall in 2011 is the first time I ever heard this piece, so I may be prejudiced in their favor? But they really are excellent and that was one of the great concerts of my life. This could possibly be my favorite work of chamber music - and like you, the hunt for The Perfect Recording continues...

Thanks for the time, Brian.   8)
Seeing live performances can dramatically expand an interest in a certain piece. Every time I see a live concert, even if it's a piece I've seen performed before or I'm exceptionally familiar with, I always leave with a new found respect for it. I can only imagine what it must have been like to experience the quintet in concert with the Pavel Haas Q., quite special I'm guessing.  :)

Offline Brian

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2014, 07:18:38 PM »
Thanks for the time, Brian.   8)
Seeing live performances can dramatically expand an interest in a certain piece. Every time I see a live concert, even if it's a piece I've seen performed before or I'm exceptionally familiar with, I always leave with a new found respect for it. I can only imagine what it must have been like to experience the quintet in concert with the Pavel Haas Q., quite special I'm guessing.  :)

Especially as I had never heard it before. Actually, if we can get sidetracked from recordings for a moment, the PHQ helped define my opinion of the piece. (I feel very lucky to have seen the PHQ live five times; a few of their ideas have been permanently written into my "how it should go" mental broadcast of the Ravel Quartet.)

Hearing the work live, and not knowing what it would be, I was struck very quickly by one obvious thing: That Tune, in the first movement, one of the most perfect and primal melodies ever written, which seems to bore a well deep down into the earth to the spring from which all beauty and goodness flows. It's played three times, of course (with repeat), and each time when the Tune was over I found myself longing, yearning, like someone coming off a high or leaving a loved one. "Bring that melody back...just one more time, I want to hear it one more time." And as a result, as I turned over what I'd heard, and thought about how close Schubert was to death, this melody began to take on a new meaning - a symbol, a symbol of memory itself, of the greatest moments in life, when we feel blanketed by love and joy - and how those moments end and we scramble to try to get back to them.

This seems to me one of the two keys to the profundity of the work. The other is the contrasts: how such serene, placid, comforting music can coexist with such bitter rage (second movement), and how carefree exuberance can surround a heart full of loneliness and loss (third movement). And, of course, these contrasts are another musical translation of what we all go through in our lives, the contrasts we feel, sometimes all too close together.

I think I probably judge all recordings based on just these two criteria: how they define and relate to the contrasts of this music and of our internal selves, and how they communicate the magic, the beauty, and ultimately the bitterness of memories.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2014, 07:50:00 PM »

Offline amw

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2014, 08:26:07 PM »
Whoever the performers are on Vivarte - pretty good period instruments account, and can be had in a 5 CD box for about $15
L'Archibudelli, I don't know it but they're usually good

Quote
Whoever the performers are on Fuga Libera, paired with an Arpeggione Sonata - I heard this a few years ago and liked it, but it's been a while
Rosamunde, just got this, sounds very good but I don't have much to compare it to except Casals@Prades (mostly better) and ABQ/Schiff (mostly worse).

Interested to hear the Diotima, who are possibly the 2nd or 3rd best active string quartet right now, and who always seem to go their own way; same with the Hagen.

@Brian - Arcanto would be my choice for the best one available on NML, of the ones I've sampled. Petersen also seems good, though reverb-y.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 09:18:16 PM by amw »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2014, 09:33:55 PM »
So this is quickly becoming a part of the list of pieces that I must find the perfect recording of, which insists of me purchasing as many as possible (along with Haydn's Farewell, Bruckner's 6th to name a few...) then of course realizing there is no perfect recording. So far I own L'Archibudelli, Borodin String Quartet, Melos String Quartet, Villa Musica Ensemble, Takács String Quartet and my current favorite The Lindsays.

Looking at few others at the moment, wanted some feedback if possible on which ones might offer a little contrast to what I already own. I don't prefer one type of interpretation over another in terms of tempo, overly Romantic or Classical influenced, HIP or MI, etc.
One of these that I'm strongly considering I noticed a reviewer, whos name I've misspelled as Brain before, called it, "not an odd duck but a beautiful swan"  ;) From what I've heard I tend to agree.

     

Which Melos version do you have, Rostropovich or Wofgang Boettcher? I'd be very interested to read comments on their remake, which I've never heard.

I think you should try to hear Hagen, Hollywood, Tatrai and Casals+Tortellier+Schneider etc. A lot depends on how strongly you feel about the first movement repeat.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 09:37:15 PM by Mandryka »
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Re: Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2014, 10:11:38 PM »
So this is quickly becoming a part of the list of pieces that I must find the perfect recording of, which insists of me purchasing as many as possible (along with Haydn's Farewell, Bruckner's 6th to name a few...) then of course realizing there is no perfect recording. So far I own L'Archibudelli, Borodin String Quartet, Melos String Quartet, Villa Musica Ensemble, Takács String Quartet and my current favorite The Lindsays.

Looking at few others at the moment, wanted some feedback if possible on which ones might offer a little contrast to what I already own. I don't prefer one type of interpretation over another in terms of tempo, overly Romantic or Classical influenced, HIP or MI, etc.

A masterpice, for sure. :) One of Schubert's highlights.
My favourites are - not surprisingly on period instruments - L'Archibudelli and Kuijken & Festetics Qt. Bot are very different and the ARCANA issue might just the different angle you are looking for! :)



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