Shostakovich String Quartets

[snyprrr]

Yes, and, and thank you kind sir for the full sentence!

yOU KNOW, kARL,- whoops- I'm getting to the end of all this DSCH SQ business. I've decided to take a small loan out to finish- head off at the pass- the last bit here: Emerson, Borodin/Chandos, some one-offs,...


SO!


What does anyone think of the St.Lawrence? The samples tell of a quite feral group in Hyperion-styled Skywalker Sound for EMI. The Op.110 'Allegro molto' sounds to be the absolutely wildest ever, check it out! They don't seem to do the timings the way I would have preferred (uniformly quicker), but, the seem to have a much more physical experience than the detached Hagen. Can anyone rank the following 3/7/8s?

ST.LAWRENCE (EMI)

HAGEN (DG)

YYGDRASIL (BIS)

KREUTZER (Carlton Classics)



Also, WHAT OF OP.110? Sooooo many just don't seem to move me at all here. It seems to be the weak link in many Cycles. It surprises me that I've bonded with the Sorrel here and sorely can't find a secondary (here, from the Emerson on down, I find most all wanting- Beethoven 'live' on YT is almost best (Borodin 'live' '62 not so much)- I also liked Borodin'78, but that is no ways definitive- the Sorrel just seem to get the CinemaScope story telling just right- a 'dark comic'.

I forget the Kronos. Anyone? I'm sure the recording is synthetic.----




Is there no one on here who will just throw me a flippin bone here?? Has anyone even listen to these SQs lately---???---wtf, am I on a desert island here??? Alexander, Rubio, Debussy, Danel, Rasowsky, Pacifica, mandelring--- come on people, there's work to do!!!!!! Are all these late rones ntoo 'soft'??

Karl, this is what I have to put up with here, day after day after night after night. Silence. more silence.

btw- Zapolski Op.68, at one penny, is a Must Have! one of the top imo

Disappointed in the Amati 3/7 on Jecklin. Nice, woody tone, though.

Sorrel put out a very very verrry good No.14. Best sound, for sure (beating Hyperion). They do everything pretty much just so here, i can't find any fault (I'd have liked the 'Adagio' a little quicker, but here it is perfectly judged according to the rest of their performance). Their Op.68, on the same CD, is almost as good as the Zapolski, sounds just a touch more lush due to Chandos, and has a ravishing slow movement.


(and I expect Replies?) hahaha ::)drrrrrr

[Karl Henning]

... whoops- I'm getting to the end of all this DSCH SQ business.

No:  you are nearly arrived at the beginning, grasshopper.

[Sergeant Rock]

btw- Zapolski Op.68, at one penny, is a Must Have! one of the top imo

It's available on two labels: Classico and Documents/Membran. Which should I buy?

Sarge

[snyprrr]

It's available on two labels: Classico and Documents/Membran. Which should I buy?

Sarge

I got it at BRO as part of a 4CD DSCH package which also includes Mackerras's 5th and Shipley's 10th. That set eliminates the Zapolski's 8th (which ... eh...) and replaces it with Cailin's 3rd (also... eh...). Maybe that IS the latter you mention... either, depending on disc-mate desires?

I was just praying you'd come and give me just even a tiny little Pacifica vs Mandelring report... maybe on the 14th? ... or...

No:  you are nearly arrived at the beginning, grasshopper.

No... I'm in negotiations right now with vendors... I simply must have that old DG outer sleeve, and, apparently not everyone is offering...


Today I threw money at Shostakovich String Quartets in anticipation of the looming Economic Collapse. I'm pretty sure (bookmark) that I'll be satisfied, Karl, when the bounty arrives. Unless you can direct me to some clandestine Taneyev, or can devine when the next Borodin Cycle arrives, I simply can't see what I'm missing. I have simply PASSED UP on the Fitzwilliam,... and the Beethoven are priced way too high,... Borodin/Chandos, maybe, but, I'm just not frothing for it,... I DID MAKE A FINANCIAL QUERY INTO THE MANDELRING as perhaps a final (for the time) word, to compare with the Emerson and Brodsky and Manhattan.

But, I've done checked into every conceivable option in the DSCH SQ Stakes, and, I'm not quite convinced the Definitive Cycle has been recorded. I daaare you try and stump me with a recording I haven't crotchsniffed!!!

CASE IN POINT!!

Op.73

I am not finding many suitable performances here, especially in light of the singularity of the Emerson performance. No one even bothers going where they went, except maybe the Beethoven, but the Emerson are obviously more conducive towards listening here. But, I went through a bunch of Op.73 samples last night, and here, check out these interesting results:

Allegri (w/ Haydn & Schumann)- tight acoustic belies a supremely powerful performance; ravaging fast mvmt. 'Classical', sturdy, powerful, noble

Mandelring & Pacifica- Mandies take the 2nd, Pacifica take the 3rd, Mandies overall very impressive- more musical Emerson?

Gewandhaus (w/ Stravinsky & Prokofiev)- the LvB players play this music with as much "old time" style as it will ever get. You won't get rabies here, but, if                                                               you         want to here the "history",
                      you might be interested in this one penny CD.

Yggdrasil- I forgot who was raving about this, but, other than a supremely firm and cool demeanour, I found nothing out of the ordinary.

Cailin (w/Beethoven)- nothing to distinguish it

Anton (w/Bartok)-

St. Lawrence- maybe the most frenetic- great sound- much to recommend...

Sorrel- ruined by bad tempi (too slow)

Manhattan- I was really surprised- I might have to pick this up- this was by far the "jolliest" - most affecting- by far

Emerson- in a class by itself; fastest in all movements- only one of two or three that take the 'Adagio' at @ 4:30 (instead of the normal 5:30-6:30)

Hagen- just not competing, imo, with Emerson + Mandelring + Borodin + Taneyev?

Lafeyette- the worst I heard

Fitzwilliam- not as good as the best

Beethoven- sorry, just too old... well, I just don't see why they just can't be out-done... eh? Too many other, daring accounts- though, it's Top7, for sure.

Borodin'67- raw

Borodin'83- 'Most Romantic'- actually 'Nostalgic Choice'- shows their general approach is always the same- 5th mvmt. becomes 'cellist's dream'...

Borodin'90- a step back from '83... kind of long in the tooth if you ask me, others seem to swear by it??

Kopelman & Berlinsky- I don't know what the point here is... the Berlinsky use the super-long 5th mvmt., otherwise, both are fairly low-wattage.

Danel- for me, marred by the 2nd mvmt.,... listen to sample, too slow???

Amati- crowded field- mm...... nice, woodsky tones, very folksy,- not essential

Orlando- mmmm........ pretty good, 'Classical' poise,... gets things right... contender for Top5-7... 10...

Brodsky- generally all around right smack dab square straight up in the middle- very very good

Fine Arts'79-
Fine Arts'86-

Eder- one of the very best, imo- just wish the sound were transparent- but, it certainly works great as it is
Shostakovich- I thought they were their usual, serious selves here,... maybe a bit turgid?... not in my Top10.

St.Petersburg/SONY- great, close sound,... raw,... lots of good things here.
St.Petersburg/Hyperion- apparently, this was recorded right after the SONY- the acoustic is larger,.. I'm intrigued, but I don't know by how much. mmmm.....

Moyzes- not as essential as their No.4.

Eleonora- crowded field- doesn't have what the best do

Penderecki- samples yield impressive results, one to think about

Bingham
Jupiter
Ludwig
Debussy
Rasumowsky
Alexander
Jerusalem
Atrium
Sibelius Academy
Philharmonia (Berlin)



THERE YOU HAVE IT!!!!!

[Sergeant Rock]

I got it at BRO as part of a 4CD DSCH package which also includes Mackerras's 5th and Shipley's 10th. That set eliminates the Zapolski's 8th (which ... eh...) and replaces it with Cailin's 3rd (also... eh...). Maybe that IS the latter you mention... either, depending on disc-mate desires?

Both versions available from Amazon DE couple 2 with 8. I ordered a used ("like new") copy of the Documents:

http://www.amazon.de/Shostakovich-String-Quartets-No-2-No-8/dp/B000092R36/ref=sr_1_2?s=music-classical&ie=UTF8&qid=1418732692&sr=1-2&keywords=Zapolski[/quote]


Sarge

[North Star]

Today I threw money at Shostakovich String Quartets in anticipation of the looming Economic Collapse.

"Buy DSCH SQ recordings When There's Blood In The Streets" - Baron Rotschild

[snyprrr]

"Buy DSCH SQ recordings When There's Blood In The Streets" - Baron Rotschild

I'm waiting to hear from my carrier pigeon if Napoleon has fallen!!

buyBuyBUY!!

Both versions available from Amazon DE couple 2 with 8. I ordered a used ("like new") copy of the Documents:

http://www.amazon.de/Shostakovich-String-Quartets-No-2-No-8/dp/B000092R36/ref=sr_1_2?s=music-classical&ie=UTF8&qid=1418732692&sr=1-2&keywords=Zapolski


Sarge

That's it!- I start wondering if i shouldn't gone for that 2/8- let me know what you think of the 8- timings look slow, though...

any thoughts on my Op.73 critique?

No:  you are nearly arrived at the beginning, grasshopper.

Karl, you knooow how I need your approval. What do you think of that critique?


I just popped the Emerson's cherry... again!! (it grows back... errrrrr)




WHO HERE ACTUALLY HAS THE BEETHOVEN CYCLE??


AND i'M DESPERATELY LOOKING FOR A MANDELRING vs PACIFICA report


IN YOUR OPINION- WHAT ARE THE FITZWILLIAM'S FINEST/WORST MOMENTS???











ok, time to clear the mind....

(five minutes later)

ookaaay!! let's get down to business...

[Sergeant Rock]

any thoughts on my Op.73 critique?

None yet. I'm still working on op.142. Listened to Mandelring vs Pacifica this afternoon. The thing that struck me the most was how emotionally ambiguous the opening was in the Mandelring. The Pacifica was just kind of...jolly. The Pacifica's recording was bright and stabbing; the Mandelring rather lush and plush in comparison.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

None yet. I'm still working on op.142. Listened to Mandelring vs Pacifica this afternoon. The thing that struck me the most was how emotionally ambiguous the opening was in the Mandelring. The Pacifica was just kind of...jolly. The Pacifica's recording was bright and stabbing; the Mandelring rather lush and plush in comparison.

Sarge

You have my undivided attention!

I have noticed that the Pacifica's sound is rather bright and tight, with a little more of the aggression coming out- though, there seems to be a certain distance from the mic which renders the complete image a touch smaller than the Mandelring?

The Mandelring, on the other hand, seem to have the overall best recording of all, bar none? "lush and plush" as you say... the Sorrel and the St.Petersburg/Hyperion have the most dramatically recorded sound-worlds that I've heard- the Pacifica and Mandelring both have much tighter acoustics, no?


Op.142
SARGE- particularly in the 'Adagio' of Op.142, the Pacifica are slightly quicker in the samples, yielding just a touch more of tragic pathos... do you hear that, or do both have that "tugging" effect that i miss in so many versions? I most certainly have been hearing that this mvmt. works best at @8:40 (Emerson, Pacifica,... Beethoven (too quick)... Rasumowsky... Eder), so that the notes "tug" at each other, as if a mother is pleading/lamenting. I don't remember who it was, but one group, playing this at @10:00+ (not Kremer) just lost the 'breathless urgency' of the opening pleas (Kremer, at 11:30, takes the gambit all the way to the other extreme, transforming this mvmt. into something in a class by itself).

So, the Mandelring, at @9:34, seem to be getting away from the "tug",... or are they?

Also, the Mandelring take the finale at UNDER 8:00!!, like the Emerson before them, which seems to work great, no?... and compared to the Pacifica? Here, in this mvmt. we see the complete arc of tempi available, from the ultra-quick Mandelring (7:48) to the ultra-slow Kremer group (10:05)... both ways seem to work fine- this is one of those mvmts. that EVERYONE seems to work well with, haven't heard anyone guff it up yet.

ONE THING I SEEK IN OP.142 is a lack of the Shostakovian 'brutality'- it seems to want to be played 'straight', like a 'Classical' SQ, but, with all the Dorian Gray showing, as if LvB were still writing spectrally. I don't yet know how aggressive the Emerson are here- the Sorrel and Brodsky both deliver quite exquisite performances, tantalizingly close to my perfect ideal- the Shostakovich may be a bit too grim, the Borodins heart-on-their-sleeve as usual,... the Eder are very very good-a contender (nice, dead Naxos sound works great in 142)...

END TRANSMISSION

REPLY

[snyprrr]

Op.142

This has been one of the most difficult to find the most satisfactory performance/recording.

Let me describe to you how I hear the piece:



I.'Allegretto'

quickest: Emerson (8:05)

slowest: Cavani (9:14)

I find the Emerson just a bit frantic, and the Cavani bloated and sluggish. Kremer, at 8:26, has just enough 'Classical' bounce, with just enough air around the individual notes. MOST clock in at @8:40 (Mandelring, Borodin, Shostakovich). Some can start to sound sluggish at 8:50.


II.'Adagio'

quickest: Beethoven (8:05)

slowest: Kremer (11:30)

Beethoven may be too quick, but, from 8:30-9:00 (Emerson, Eder, Pacifica, Taneyev?, Rasumowsky) we get a Golden Section where this oddly structure "breathing" melody really blooms. But, then at around 10:00, some lose tension and the music devolves into typical "sad music". Kremer's extraordinary 11:30 goes all the way to the other extreme and creates a wholly different aura that works great.


III.'Allegretto-Adagio-Allegretto'

quickest: Mandelring (7:48)

slowest: Kremer (10:05)

I don't think I've heard a terrible 'Allegretto' here. Some may not have the best recording, but, it seems that no matter the tempo choice here, no one's approach can harm the music any- some maaay sound a little sluggish, but Kremer, with the slowest, doesn't seem to have that problem.

[Karl Henning]

I find the Emerson just a bit frantic

You see? I knew you would like it, too!

[snyprrr]

You see? I knew you would like it, too!

usually, "too" is negative?

Sarge is hard at work, why aren't you??? I'm slaving over my notes here, wondering if putting all this in book form would be the ticket for everyone?

[Fagotterdämmerung]

  I'm awful at contrasting recordings as so many favorites I'm just lucky to have any recordings of, but I feel it's time to own the best Op. 144. Thoughts?

[Karl Henning]

usually, "too" is negative?

Too emphasizes the adjective.

You didn't write too; you wrote just a bit.

(The surrealism of reminding snypsss just what he wrote . . . .)

[Ken B]

Too emphasizes the adjective.

You didn't write too; you wrote just a bit.

(The surrealism of reminding snypsss just what he wrote . . . .)

No, no, no. Snyprr wrote too. "Too" is the prefect word for snyprrr's writings! Too, too, too.

[George]

Too emphasizes the adjective.

You didn't write too; you wrote just a bit.

(The surrealism of reminding snypsss just what he wrote . . . .)

At the risk of biting off more than I can chew, I think I may see the confusion here.

snyprrr said the Emerson was "a bit frantic" (meaning that to be a negative thing)

Then you said "I knew that you would like it too," I assume because you mistook his first statement as being positive.

Then he questioned that too implied negativity because he meant a negative assessment to begin with.

Or maybe I am confused....

[Karl Henning]

I applaud the effort in all events, George!

[snyprrr]

  I'm awful at contrasting recordings as so many favorites I'm just lucky to have any recordings of, but I feel it's time to own the best Op. 144. Thoughts?

Borodin'95 (Teldec)- maybe try amazon.uk- 14 minute opener

Beethoven

Oleg Kogan Edition 33(32?)- 15 minute opener


Danel & Eder also have longer openings



BUT, BORODIN'95 IS UNLIKE ANY OTHER!!




AND YES, THE EMERSON ARE JUST A BIT TOO MUCH FRENETIC IN 142 'ALLEGRETTO' OPENING, AAAHHHH!!!!! THEY NEED TO CHILL JUST A LITTLE BIT.

[snyprrr]

SEE, NOW YOU'VE ALL SCARED sARGE AWAY!!!!

[snyprrr]

I'm feelin' the DSCH SQ burn this morning- come at me, bro!! I'll take on all comers, Put 'em up!!


FITZWILLIAM:

I just heard Op.49, on YT, with the Fitzwilliam, the first full SQ I've heard from them,... and, they DO sound a bit old fashioned and, as they say, "stodgy". The 1st was a bit slow (like the Brodsky), leading to the rest, which really didn't distinguish itself in any blazing fashion. The only thing I've ever heard go wrong with this music is when the 1st is played to slow, and it is here and with the Brodsky.

NEXXXT!!!