Shostakovich String Quartets

[George]

No where really to go from here,... Borodin/Chandos is the most tempting,...

You don't have that set yet?! 

[snyprrr]

You don't have that set yet?! 

I usually resist the obvious until it becomes... uh... obvious!

I mean, as cheap as the Fittzies are, everything I've heard - most everything-  only leads me to them out of boredom for nothing to Buy. But I'm sure I will eventually fall here too.

Beethoven are expensive; Taneyev MIA,... the Borodin'67 are like the hidden nugget that I've had to court here, developing an awareness for this set's status.

You aren't fooling anyone!

BUT--- I'M SATISFIED!!

Maybe a stray 12 or 14,... but I just don't see myself getting more of the ones I'm particularly sated with (1,4,8,11,13,...etc.). A BRAND NEW CD is coming out with 4/8/11,... sorry, yaaawn ,... how could I possibly care HOW good it is?

WE HAVE REACHED A NEW PARADIGM. The stakes are that much higher. You HAAAVE to give me something more than what's been being offered of late. Could we have just one new group not trying to sound so pretty? That's the main reason to go for Borodin/Chandos- they actually serve up some brutality where required (9-11).


How many endless Op.110s are we going to have to ignore? There's just nothing left to say here, is there?


No, Karl, I just can't see where this endless getting would go. WHAT IS LEFT? Coull? No. Anton? eh. Cavani? No.

I finally got the St.Lawrence 3/7/8. Actually, one of the best recorded, to be sure (Skywalker Sound- somewhat tight and bright acoustic, very good). I think they give thew Emerson a bit of a go to. Their 7 blisters. Comparing their Op.73 to all comers, they hold the fort pretty well. SO, WHAT, AM I NOW GOING TO GET THE HAGEN TOO? ONLY FOR $2. Frankly, a head to head here would be instructive...


btw- Brodsky over Emerson in 10.      and maybe even in 3...






yes, i have been waffling a little lately on my criticisms... very few outright dismissals... but, I believe I've been diligent in weeding out what I don't want...


HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY GO ON? THERE AREN'T THAT MANY MORE DESIRABLE RECORDINGS.

Debussy
Rubio
Rasumowsky
Pacifica
Mandelring
Danel

I mean, none of these has been described as "vicious" "brutal" or anything like that. We are in the midst of the "Happy DSCH" face scenario, - you CAN'T "let the music speak for itsel"- it was MEANT to be played by Survivors- not music school graduates.

Give me the Balkan String Quartet any day.

Gulag String Quartet

Stalin String Quartet

Famine String Quartet

[snyprrr]

poor guy

[Todd]

HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY GO ON? THERE AREN'T THAT MANY MORE DESIRABLE RECORDINGS.

Debussy
Rubio
Rasumowsky
Pacifica
Mandelring
Danel

The Pacifica and especially the Danel are most desirable.

Also, consider the not complete and may never be complete Prazak.  The newer disc with 14/15 is as good as anyone's, and the earlier 7/8 is pretty darned good, too.  Then again, the Prazak is one of the better ensembles out there.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

The Pacifica and especially the Danel are most desirable.

I just got the Pacifica, and agree that it's a great set. Now available as 8 discs for the price of 2!

[Karl Henning]

I just got the Pacifica, and agree that it's a great set. Now available as 8 discs for the price of 2!

Wowzers!

[snyprrr]

The Pacifica and especially the Danel are most desirable.

Also, consider the not complete and may never be complete Prazak.  The newer disc with 14/15 is as good as anyone's, and the earlier 7/8 is pretty darned good, too.  Then again, the Prazak is one of the better ensembles out there.

You have the new Prazak 14/15? do ya do ya?

What are the timings? pleeeez

can't find any samples,... I'd need such olympian advocacy to consider these...




I guess though, my point is- I haven't heard word one concerning the Debussy. Maybe one sentence on Rasumowsky.

You mention the Danel and pacifica, but that does me no good unless you add the Mandelring in too for comparison. I think all of these groups need to be reviewed together, the whole lot.

I mean, I guess you could say, They're ALL great, but, come on, that's not really what living on this planet is all about, is it? If I coached a group on this Cycle, I can tell you my whole aim would be to give the people something they haven't heard before. Every movement would be carefully brought to life, considering the playing traditions.

Would i have an 18 minute 13th, or a 22 minute? Doesn't matter- buuut, the non-vibrato aspect hasn't been brought out so much (Aviv?).


I'm just wanting more insight into these later Cycles,- more than just "I got these and they're great".

I just can't believe that any of them have the brutal ferocity of, say, the '67 Borodin. Suuuurely, that Sorrel 8th hasn't been topped yet?

I'm feeling argumentative this morning. Give me some meat!!

Wowzers!

Their whole set, individually or together, is going for peanuts. I have long considered the 5-8 set, for $5,... mm.... eh....

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm getting short with the people who are hawking these newer Cycles. I'm just getting :it's great", without any comparisons... I mean, reeeally, which one of these sets has the ultimate 12 or 14? Are any of the 8ths better than the Sorrel? Does the rabid ferocity enter 3, 7, 8, 9, or 10?

I want answers answers answers!!!!!!!


From all the sampling I've done, it just appears that the above axis of seven or so groups are all in the "gentler" camp. You just CAN'T be uniformly gentle here. Apparently, ONLY the Mandelring make a point of playing each work differently, not usung a corporate sound through each and every work. But I'm not sure they go far enough.






Look, here it is in a nutshell: in the slow movement for No.7, some take it at 2:45,... some stretch to 4:05,... and the Kreutzer pound out a 6 minute version. Those are the three options provided by ALL the participants. What? do I need three examples of EACH, or just one? With No.7, I reeeally get tired of hearing the exact same approach over the course of seven or eight Cycles. If someone fresh comes out now with yet another 7 that doesn't have anything different going for it, I'm going to yawn-scream. Look over all these new Cycles. Does anyone do anything super exciting with 7? mmm? Not really. They're all squarely in the middle of the pack- if all I wanted was 7, would I have to then buy all these expensive Cycles just to be underwhelmed by yet another typical 7?




I REALLY AM TIRING OF THIS. Maybe in a year or so people here will have acquired more Cycles, and we can get some more depth here. Only Sarge was doing some comparisons- really? I'm the only one who has only listened to DSCH for a whole year now? (oy- and I'm trying to break free, but, ... but, this music really is so good to me, for me)

AAAAHHHHHHHH



AN EXAMPLE OF MY OBSSESSION: I just popped for the St.Petersburg 4/6/8 for the 6. I have been seeking a 6 I like, and I just haven't been getting what I want. This 6 has gotten superlative (backhanded) reviews, and the samples shine, so, hopefully, this one will sate. If not, then I have to move on to this list of Seven Cycles, all of which have 6s that sound decent enough (as if this should even be a difficult piece to bring off- but, its delicacy and marital origins seem lost in accounts that seek to find darkness where there is none.






I am weary this morn ... put the DSCH-pipe down, brutha

[Todd]

You have the new Prazak 14/15? do ya do ya?

What are the timings? pleeeez

I don't have the discs handy, but the timings are not particularly unusual.  Timings aren't necessarily my thing to begin with.  As I posted in the WAYLT thread, the Prazak are as good as anyone I have heard.

You mention the Danel and pacifica, but that does me no good unless you add the Mandelring in too for comparison. I think all of these groups need to be reviewed together, the whole lot.

I'm not inclined to do a full-blown comparison at this time, but suffice it to say both the Danel and Pacifica best the Mandelring.  The Mandelring play well enough, but the set never catches fire for me.  The Pacifica and Danel are both, well, "modern" takes, sort of building on the Emerson.  They don't emote like the Borodin or Beethoven Quartets, but they are precise and intense.  No warmed over, quasi-Brahmsian Rubio stylings here, if that's your worry.  It has been a while since I last listened to the Danel, but they have a sheen of perfection, if you will.  No errors, plenty of intensity, and if it lacks some emotional heat, that matters not.  DSCH, like all great composers, can be interpreted different ways and still succeed.  Think of the Danel and the Pacifica as representing something of an evolution in approach to the works.  Surely it is better that interpretations change over time and the music stays alive rather than succumbing to one style and being nothing more than a relic.

[Karl Henning]

. . . No errors, plenty of intensity, and if it lacks some emotional heat, that matters not.  DSCH, like all great composers, can be interpreted different ways and still succeed.

What are you saying?! This is snypsss! If there's no gore on the handlebars, get off the damned Schwinn!

(j/k)

(maybe)

[Sergeant Rock]

Look over all these new Cycles. Does anyone do anything super exciting with 7? mmm? Not really. They're all squarely in the middle of the pack- if all I wanted was 7, would I have to then buy all these expensive Cycles just to be underwhelmed by yet another typical 7?

You probably would be underwhelmed. You're a difficult man to satisfy (that's what she said  ). I'd like to help you out but, god, comparing eight cycles of 15 quartets is just such a daunting task. My advice: be happy with your Emerson and Borodin sets (you do have a Borodin, right?) and all your single issues (like that superb Sorrel 8 and the eccentric Zapolski 2). Forget the recent cycles (and Rubio, Fitzwilliam). I really do not think they have what you are looking for. And thank you for all your effort. I doubt I would have invested in Sorrel and Manhattan without your mad obsession.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

I don't have the discs handy, but the timings are not particularly unusual.  Timings aren't necessarily my thing to begin with.  As I posted in the WAYLT thread, the Prazak are as good as anyone I have heard.










I'm not inclined to do a full-blown comparison at this time, but suffice it to say both the Danel and Pacifica best the Mandelring.  The Mandelring play well enough, but the set never catches fire for me.  The Pacifica and Danel are both, well, "modern" takes, sort of building on the Emerson.  They don't emote like the Borodin or Beethoven Quartets, but they are precise and intense.  No warmed over, quasi-Brahmsian Rubio stylings here, if that's your worry.  It has been a while since I last listened to the Danel, but they have a sheen of perfection, if you will.  No errors, plenty of intensity, and if it lacks some emotional heat, that matters not.  DSCH, like all great composers, can be interpreted different ways and still succeed.  Think of the Danel and the Pacifica as representing something of an evolution in approach to the works.  Surely it is better that interpretations change over time and the music stays alive rather than succumbing to one style and being nothing more than a relic.

Ah, you do know how to woo me, don't you!!?!

WOW, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST: Danel and Pacifica best the Mandelring

I'd consider that BreakingNews!!

Wow, that would sent my whole paradigm into free fall. hmmm........


Oh, and "quasi Brahmsian stylings of the Rubio".... oy vey, now THAT's the kind of vitriol I need!!!!! Yes, the Rubio sound too much like my grandad's oldsmobile, not a hair out of place, sheen coming from the bows,... yuuuk. so bland...


NO ONE ON THE DEBUSSY???

I'd like to compare the Danel and Rasumowsky.


WAIT- I seem to recall the Danel really disappointing me in the 2nd of Op.73. No frisson at all?




still, I see and enjoy your way of looking at these newer Cycles,... all insight welcome here!

What are you saying?! This is snypsss! If there's no gore on the handlebars, get off the damned Schwinn!

(j/k)

(maybe)

Just listen to the Borodin'67's 9 or 10. Nothing more brutal exists, no?

And with the Sorrel's Op.110, I really hear the fingernails being pulled out in the 3rd movement. pluck pluck pluck ouch!!

And with the Emerson, Hagen, and St.Lawrence, the finale 'Allegro' of No.7 is sent burrowing like a diamond mine drill, ridiculously over the top.

BUT- I want my No.6 to sound like Op.18, I don't want any modern looking for darkness there (or in No.1).

I mean, you just can't be nice with the 3rd of No.11. You can't.


I have the Aviv No.9 coming. It's timings are even quicker than the Emerson, and the samples ensure brutality ensuing. (I have two recordings en route, and, other than the Borodin/Chandos, and maybe one random Modern Cycle, I can't possibly see me rooting and tooling for even yet more 4s, 8s, 1s,, 11s, 15s,...etc. Until a young, feral group arises, with an axe to grind, I will perpetually suspicious of any new releases by "pretty" young groups (not being genderist there) who want to inject some "humanity" into these scores. Fuck Off!!!!!

Gulag String Quartet

Stalin String Quartet




Morgaua String Quartet

Now we have three issues from EMI-Japan with the Japanese Morgaua SQ. They're all ridiculously in the $60-80 range. I wonder how these Nipponese handle the volatility of 5 and 9. Fiscally, we may never know...

Only your good old buddy snyprrr has rooted them out of the cellar of obscurity to present before you this totally unheard of recording Cycle.

(Todd, the IT Specialist on SNL: "You're welcooome!"



Karl, whose SQs do you like better than DSCH? Every time I play someone else's (Hindemith, Villa-Lobos), I'm like, eh, that's nice. What's happened to me? Only DSCH has the MATERIAL which yields these emotional-melodic situations (the opening of No.9, the slow of 7) that just transport us to the outer reaches of the Ultra-Late Romanticism.




sorry, i'm wearying myself today... more coffee....

You probably would be underwhelmed. You're a difficult man to satisfy (that's what she said  ). I'd like to help you out but, god, comparing eight cycles of 15 quartets is just such a daunting task. My advice: be happy with your Emerson and Borodin sets (you do have a Borodin, right?) and all your single issues (like that superb Sorrel 8 and the eccentric Zapolski 2). Forget the recent cycles (and Rubio, Fitzwilliam). I really do not think they have what you are looking for. And thank you for all your effort. I doubt I would have invested in Sorrel and Manhattan without your mad obsession.

Sarge

well I certainly thank you my dear sir!

Maybe, as far as endless comparisons go, can we just pick one or two SQs (the ones that naturally crop up in arguments... 12 and 14?... 9?... whatever work has the most "It" to it) and just do it that way... I'm certainly not asking anyone to review No.1) I'm interested in 9-10, 12, 14,... maybe 5-6,... 2-3,...


Hey, I also thank you for confirming the "eccentric" Zapolski Op.68. The Verlaine (BRO) was also an extremely extremely good Op.68, with wonderfully woodsky timbres, and a 'Waltz' almost as slow as the Zapolski.

And I think that Sorrel Op.110 has now the consensus of waaay too many people, it really is beyond any other recording. I frankly couldn't care less about 110, but for the Sorrel (and, actually, the Beethoven premiere).



Now all this thread needs is an Editor!!





btw- I'm still looking at Op.73. I actually am starting to prefer the Brodsky over the Emerson here, but haven't found too many third choices,








again, must. stop. typing.

hunger

dizzy

food

[Sergeant Rock]

Maybe, as far as endless comparisons go, can we just pick one or two SQs (the ones that naturally crop up in arguments... 12 and 14?... 9?... whatever work has the most "It" to it) and just do it that way... I'm certainly not asking anyone to review No.1) I'm interested in 9-10, 12, 14,... maybe 5-6,... 2-3,...

I'll see what I can do...over the next year or two    Seriously, I would like to compare my various Sevenths (which you didn't mention, not in this post anyway).

If I had to choose between Pacifica and Mandelring...well, I have to go with my homies. I find them more individual, less corporate. I find them as combustible as the Pacifica. But the fact Pacifica is cheaper now, and has those great "fillers" might sway you.

No warmed over, quasi-Brahmsian Rubio stylings here

Quasi-Brahmsian    I like that. It's why I love the Rubio cycle (not to the exclusion of others, but as an interesting alternative view of the music).


Sarge

[amw]

At one point I was considering a Shostakovich 7 mini-blind comparison, probably a single round contrasting some recordings of the first movement. Might still do it.

[Sergeant Rock]

At one point I was considering a Shostakovich 7 mini-blind comparison, probably a single round contrasting some recordings of the first movement. Might still do it.

Please do!

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Please do!

Sarge

At one point I was considering a Shostakovich 7 mini-blind comparison, probably a single round contrasting some recordings of the first movement. Might still do it.

No, that's a great idea! 7 is perfect, and I just got around to it today. But, all three movements are quite unique and special,... even the coda has been taken in a variety of ways. I mean, I'd love to hear the quickest 2:30 slow movement back-to-back with that 6 minute Kreutzer. And, everyone must hear the most blistering intros to the finale- I think the St.Lawrence might beat the Emerson, but the Hagen might beat them all (though, the St.L have a sense of furious hysteria that the more technically fast Hagen may not show). I really really like the ultra fresh St.Petersburg/SONY (and yes, a total contrast from their Hyperion). I think the Sorrel might be the most disappointingly boring- Philharmonia/Thorofon also- and I don't really get too much frisson from either later Borodin (huh). Rubio and surprisingly the Alexander also appear blindingly generic.       Kudos to the Shostakovich for an eerie cello in the 2nd half of slow mvmt.

Warning: There's more boring 7ths than anything else. You'd really have to mix up the slow/fast mix- many do sound very much alike, the only way to tell the dif is by the rec. sound. Many should be obvious.


No.7 is certainly, to me, a perfect Modernist work- so unique and especially moody in its unsettled game of tones. That opening really snapped me (surely0 the first time I heard it. It's JUST Music as GamePlay, though it's supposed to be a post-LoveSong - I'm always trying to hear the romping between Shosty and his then wife in the playful back and forth of the 1st. One can imagine her "form" in the sinuous melody of the coda of the finale. I hear bickering elsewhere.

Sure, let's do a 7 thingy!

[snyprrr]

No.7 Op.108 (1960)

This one is just so ubiquitous that I take it for granted. Even though, surely, it is some of my all-time favourite music, I don't seem to take it too seriously. But, when I do carefully listen to it, as I did today, it just presents itself as a perfect journey, a love song. Today I just focused on the first movement.

I started with the Emerson, who, frankly, seem just a touch under characterized when the cello begins its melody over the quivering violin. The Manhattan, and Brodsky, both seem a little more homey than the Emersons, with the Brodsky seemingly edging out the Emerson with a much more characterized and urgent tone (though they are 15 secs. slower the still seem to have more momentum than the Emerson).

The Sorrel and the St.Petersburg/Hyperion come with the best actual sound, with the Sorrel having the lushest presentation of all. At first I thought they were soggy, but today the simply seemed symphonic; the massive acoustic, though, does seem to squish a few things, as has been done with other recordings in this Cycle. The St.Ps have a 3D soundscape that seriously splays the music, making every line separate, and I heard things here that didn't register with others.

The St.Petersburg/SONY account is the quickest I have, at 3:16. Only the Taneyev come close here. The fast clip really draws you in, and I do like this approach. The acoustic is much smaller than in their Hyperion Cycle.

The St.Lawrence are comparable to the Emerson and Brodsky. They have the best actual clear, up front recording, with punch.

The Amati, the Philharmonia, and the Alexander didn't make the listen today- tomorrow- but I'm already sure none of these are in any contention. The two later Borodins also didn't get a spin today, but I am quite familiar with their approach here, and they are pretty mild in both.

Op.108 doesn't really make an impact unless you really ply it, and, no matter the tempo chosen, if a group maintains a solid tension throughout, then they usually succeed.

[snyprrr]

You aren't fooling anyone!

ok, I ordered the Hagen 3/7/8 and the Borodin/Chandos,... happy?!!

seriously, that's gonna be it for a while... there just aren't any other options,... right?,... I took my notes, made my charts, followed through, and now I've been churned out the other end,... we KNOW what's left,... though, yes, the Pacifica vs Mandelring issue continues to burn for me, not to mention the 3-4 Cycles we've been mentioning....


No.7 Op.108

Been doing some intensive listening here,... (waiting now on Hagen)... always looking for "who is better than the Emerson" (just my game)... and so far, here's my picks, somewhat in order:

1) St.Petersburg/Hyperion- this one just does things no one else does (even St.P/SONY don't). It's so utterly refined that it is in a category unto itself. The 1st is taken "quickly", like their SONY, putting it in rare company (Taneyev, Beethoven). The finale is not as furious as I like (hovering around 6 minutes instead of the quicker 5:25 of others) but the whole presentation illumunates this work nicely. It's by no mean an actual Top Choice, but I give it 'Top Presentation', as opposed to the other "great recording". the Sorrel, in which their usual giant Chandos reverb does a disservice to the actual music (swamping some detail).

2) St.Petersburg/SONY- the main difference here is the tight SONY sound as compared to the almost gothic ambience of the Hyperion Cycle. Also, the 1st is the quickest on record, quite fresh. In all, this is the one that has become a sort of Standard for me, I was just really taken by its freshness. It's super cheap too, BuyItNOW!!

3) St.Lawrence- technically, this one does all the right things, including the most ferocious finale this side of the Hagen. The Skywalker sound is a tight, reflective room, though, I could have stood for a more open room to soak up the rests. Otherwise, it competes directly against the Emerson and Hagen and does slash and burn its way into your memory, disregarding ANY politeness either the Emerson or (much less so) the Hagen offer. I'm putting this version right next to the previous St.P/SONY.

4) Brodsky- my love for the Teldec sound is well known, and the only thing it really needs is some 15-20k boost for the super high end. Otherwise, this is the most DELINEATED performance of all, so etched... just listen to all the lines intersecting in the slow movement, almost like Webern, yummy! And the finale is in  Emerson and Hagen territory. This is a supremely icy performance, etched with fine lines, a very definitive sound. The Brodsky are the Dark Horse here.

5) Emerson vs Hagen- the Emerson actually sound quite scrappy, in the good way, in Op.108. I was fully prepared to give them the Honours, but, all the above have made quite their own claim on this piece. Their 1st is by no means any better, or even different, than so many others. Their 'live' sound is fine, but not really distinguished- everything works together for a rough-and-ready symbiosis that does actually come together in all aspects. The Emerson's main claim to fame in this work is the fact that they take the slow movement quicker than everyone else (@2:45 vs the usual @3:30-40) giving the music a different flavour (compare this with the Kreutzer's outrageous 6:45!!!!!!). Hardly anyone follows them into this territory, so, it does make them somewhat indispensable. Many seem totally satisfied here and refuse to even entertain the possibility of hearing others, but, other have illuminated things that they haven't, so, it is hard for me to just prostrate myself here.

I haven't yet heard the Hagen, but, the samples indicate that they have reserved a place at the table here.

[George]

ok, I ordered ... the Borodin/Chandos,... happy?!!

I know you will be!

[snyprrr]

ok, I ordered the Hagen 3/7/8 and the Borodin/Chandos,... happy?!!

seriously, that's gonna be it for a while... there just aren't any other options,... right?,... I took my notes, made my charts, followed through, and now I've been churned out the other end,... we KNOW what's left,... though, yes, the Pacifica vs Mandelring issue continues to burn for me, not to mention the 3-4 Cycles we've been mentioning....


No.7 Op.108

Been doing some intensive listening here,... (waiting now on Hagen)... always looking for "who is better than the Emerson" (just my game)... and so far, here's my picks, somewhat in order:

1) St.Petersburg/Hyperion- this one just does things no one else does (even St.P/SONY don't). It's so utterly refined that it is in a category unto itself. The 1st is taken "quickly", like their SONY, putting it in rare company (Taneyev, Beethoven). The finale is not as furious as I like (hovering around 6 minutes instead of the quicker 5:25 of others) but the whole presentation illumunates this work nicely. It's by no mean an actual Top Choice, but I give it 'Top Presentation', as opposed to the other "great recording". the Sorrel, in which their usual giant Chandos reverb does a disservice to the actual music (swamping some detail).

2) St.Petersburg/SONY- the main difference here is the tight SONY sound as compared to the almost gothic ambience of the Hyperion Cycle. Also, the 1st is the quickest on record, quite fresh. In all, this is the one that has become a sort of Standard for me, I was just really taken by its freshness. It's super cheap too, BuyItNOW!!

3) St.Lawrence- technically, this one does all the right things, including the most ferocious finale this side of the Hagen. The Skywalker sound is a tight, reflective room, though, I could have stood for a more open room to soak up the rests. Otherwise, it competes directly against the Emerson and Hagen and does slash and burn its way into your memory, disregarding ANY politeness either the Emerson or (much less so) the Hagen offer. I'm putting this version right next to the previous St.P/SONY.

4) Brodsky- my love for the Teldec sound is well known, and the only thing it really needs is some 15-20k boost for the super high end. Otherwise, this is the most DELINEATED performance of all, so etched... just listen to all the lines intersecting in the slow movement, almost like Webern, yummy! And the finale is in  Emerson and Hagen territory. This is a supremely icy performance, etched with fine lines, a very definitive sound. The Brodsky are the Dark Horse here.

5) Emerson vs Hagen- the Emerson actually sound quite scrappy, in the good way, in Op.108. I was fully prepared to give them the Honours, but, all the above have made quite their own claim on this piece. Their 1st is by no means any better, or even different, than so many others. Their 'live' sound is fine, but not really distinguished- everything works together for a rough-and-ready symbiosis that does actually come together in all aspects. The Emerson's main claim to fame in this work is the fact that they take the slow movement quicker than everyone else (@2:45 vs the usual @3:30-40) giving the music a different flavour (compare this with the Kreutzer's outrageous 6:45!!!!!!). Hardly anyone follows them into this territory, so, it does make them somewhat indispensable. Many seem totally satisfied here and refuse to even entertain the possibility of hearing others, but, other have illuminated things that they haven't, so, it is hard for me to just prostrate myself here.

I haven't yet heard the Hagen, but, the samples indicate that they have reserved a place at the table here.

Hagen

I've just listened to their 7 three times, and, folks, it is the Overall Best Winner. It sounds very much like the Emerson, but pristine and icy DG sound, and with the instruments a little more refined without sacrificing any of the ferocity- and the Hagen may the the most incisive of all in the fugue. Yes, they do everything right, there's no arguing. The acoustic is tight and the whole thing exudes the aura of a perfect DG recording.

I don't recall too many people having this one here, or am I wrong? I'm really just tickled by this presentation,... don't know about 3 or 8 yet, but, no matter, this is all about their 7.

[aukhawk]

Yes by pure co-incidence I listened to the Hagen 7th yesterday as well - and I agree with your description in every way.