Which pianist has the most beautiful "touch"?

Started by Skogwald, March 25, 2024, 06:21:00 AM

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Brian

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 26, 2024, 08:14:35 AMForgive the pedantry, but 25/1 (in A flat, a moderately slow 4/4 with a lot of rustling figuration) is usually nicknamed the Aeolian Harp, while 25/9 (in G flat, a quick 2/4) is the Butterfly. All these nicknames are kind of dumb of course, but somehow they persist and seem inseparable from the music's allure.
Whoops - thanks - shows how many memory cells I have annexed to those nicknames. (It was definitely 25/1)

(poco) Sforzando

Since I've mentioned George Horliono, one of my current favorite unsung young pianists, see what you think of his touch and tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz9UHnHyk4Y&t=212s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sda-6AgOTw

OK, in the scherzo of 31/3 he overdoes the ritards and pauses, but I really find his overall approach appealingly light and charming. Maybe we should have a discussion someday about competitions (and what a racket they are); anyone interested in the topic should read Charles Rosen's witty and acerbic comments on the subject (and the education of pianists in general) in "Piano Notes." Anyway, it dismays me to see that George did not progress beyond preliminary screening in the 2022 Cliburn. It just goes to show there are so many fine and capable pianists out there. But frankly, I'll take his op. 10/8 any day over Yunchan's, which a friend of mine described as "dull and uninflected."
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Holden

I wonder how many pianists from the past would qualify and can't really because of the limited recording technology of the time.
Cheers

Holden

Todd

Quote from: Holden on March 26, 2024, 12:32:57 PMI wonder how many pianists from the past would qualify and can't really because of the limited recording technology of the time.

Probably a goodly number.  I didn't include Kempff because he had been mentioned several times, but to be sure he could be included, and to my ears his 1920s and 1930s recordings make a better case for that than his late recordings.  Lhevinne could be included, probably, as could Levitski and Moiseiwitsch.  I'd have to trudge through more ancient recordings and go for the most ancient recording friendly listening setup I have - my tube headphone amp and Denon closed back headphones - to really suss them out. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Atriod

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on March 25, 2024, 05:03:40 PMHaving heard him live at Carnegie in the Chopin etudes I'm inclined to agree. He's got a devoted fanbase and phenomenal technique, but I thought the finale of his recorded Moonlight much too aggressive. He can be very delicate in slow nocturne-like pieces, but he pushed himself pretty hard at Carnegie in the Revolutionary and the last big three etudes of op. 25. Exciting stuff, as were his Liszt etudes and Rach 3 from the Cliburn, but already he's having to cancel some performances due to strain in one hand.

Jan Lisiecki has a beautiful touch. (And incidentally based on his social media presence, seems like a genuinely nice guy.) From the little I've heard of her (just a Chopin etude in thirds on YouTube), Beatrice Rana might qualify. And also George Harliono, who didn't make the top 30 in the 2022 Cliburn, but his YouTube version of Chopin 10/8 stands out to me for elegance and humor.

I do consider myself a big fan of Lim, a pianist's touch is not something I worry myself about too much unless it's particularly ugly and Lim is perfectly acceptable to me.

As for finale of Moonlight I don't hear much in the way of aggression. The tempo is brisk but the old masters like Lhevinne and Hofmann also play it a similar tempo. I think it does need some contrast against the first movement. Another reason why I think Beethoven was correct with his tempo indications for the first movement of the Hammerklavier, it needs to be adhered to contrast against the final two movements.

I also think Lim plays well beyond his age. If I heard him blind there is no way I would have guessed his recordings were those of a 17-19 yo. I did a blind comparison with Liszt's Transcendental Etudes, loaded up a playlist in JRiver one pianist after another for each etude, shuffled then added some silence after each pianist so I could make a brief ranking. The pianists were Claudio Arrau (Philips/Pentatone), Yunchan Lim, Kirill Gerstein, and Haochen Zhang. Only Zhang didn't fare so well. Arrau was my overall favorite but Lim did very well, even in the more reflective etudes like a-flat major.

I agree with you on safe technique and not pushing himself too much, hopefully these are things he works out to sustain a long lasting career.

Atriod

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 26, 2024, 08:20:14 AMAndrzej Wasowski.

Superb choice! Desert island Chopin Nocturnes and Mazurkas, just gorgeous.

(poco) Sforzando

#26
Quote from: Atriod on March 27, 2024, 02:12:00 PMI do consider myself a big fan of Lim, a pianist's touch is not something I worry myself about too much unless it's particularly ugly and Lim is perfectly acceptable to me.

As for finale of Moonlight I don't hear much in the way of aggression. The tempo is brisk but the old masters like Lhevinne and Hofmann also play it a similar tempo. I think it does need some contrast against the first movement. Another reason why I think Beethoven was correct with his tempo indications for the first movement of the Hammerklavier, it needs to be adhered to contrast against the final two movements.

I also think Lim plays well beyond his age. If I heard him blind there is no way I would have guessed his recordings were those of a 17-19 yo. I did a blind comparison with Liszt's Transcendental Etudes, loaded up a playlist in JRiver one pianist after another for each etude, shuffled then added some silence after each pianist so I could make a brief ranking. The pianists were Claudio Arrau (Philips/Pentatone), Yunchan Lim, Kirill Gerstein, and Haochen Zhang. Only Zhang didn't fare so well. Arrau was my overall favorite but Lim did very well, even in the more reflective etudes like a-flat major.

I agree with you on safe technique and not pushing himself too much, hopefully these are things he works out to sustain a long lasting career.

I consider myself a fan as well, though my rapture is somewhat modified. His Liszt etudes and Rach 3 are superb. (But I cannot go so far as some of his devoted followers on Facebook, one of whom states that "He is truly a phenom who has graced us from the heavenly realm," and another that "in many aspects, and in comparison to many other previous pianists, Yunchan is already the greatest of all time. The truth is that Yunchan has already surpassed all the other legendary pianists in some [not all] key repertoires. That is not a mean feat considering his age. As mind-boggling as "greatest of all time" sounds for a 20-year old, it can't be denied." So there. The truth has been revealed.)

My objection to his Moonlight finale is less tempo than articulation. And he takes the middle movement too slowly.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Atriod on March 27, 2024, 02:13:00 PMSuperb choice! Desert island Chopin Nocturnes and Mazurkas, just gorgeous.

It was Mandryka's recommendation!