Film (movie) Music

[jowcol]

I think it's pretty sad that our resident music lover, James, can't find any ounce of creativity in film music. As I stated in an earlier post, there is a wide variety in film music. Some of it is terrible, cliched, but a lot of it is imaginative, lyrically beautiful, and downright exciting. There's good and bad music in all genres, but to dismiss an entire genre is completely ignorant.

FWIW--  I may be stepping out of character here, but   James has every right to express his opinion, and I don't see it as any more or less valid that the other opinions posted on this forum.  Eventually, we need to make our own decisions of which art is worthy to spend our time and $$ which, James points out, is in a limited supply.  If I seemed critical (or satirical) in an earlier post in this thread, it had nothing to do with his right to have, maintain, and defend his opinions, since I think that is a right we all should have here.    I was just questioning the way and language in which we address our differences.   MI, I tend to side with you on this issue, but I wouldn't categorize anyone who doesn't as ignorant.   I've not made any attempt to get Rap into my life-- or Doo Wop music-- does this make me ignorant?

I would also say that we all have our "blind spots" in which we tend to dismiss and denigrate anything without attempted to reevaluate it further, and I don't think we should be singling out any member of this forum for that, since we'd all be guilty soon enough.

Okay-- back into character. 

[Mirror Image]

You aren't going to miss much by avoiding the barren waste land that is film, life is just too short .. believe it, you'd best be putting your money, time & energy elsewhere if it's truly great musical art you're looking for.

There are only a few film composers that I enjoy. I think your constant need to degrade something that you don't enjoy tells us more about you than it does the actual music itself. I'm so thankful that the world isn't full of people like you, because if it was, I would be finding me an island somewhere where I could be alone.

[jowcol]

Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.

Ahh, a thousand pardons.  I forgot the precept about assumptions. 

you're out of your depth, uninformed .. & never make assumptions ..

I will study the texts more thoroughly, that I may be able to discern the difference between an "informed conclusion" and an "opinion" which to date has not been apparent... 

[jochanaan]

Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.

In that case, let me ask you a simple question: Name five film composers and rank them from "most trashy" to "least trashy."  You can do this on a new thread as a poll if you want, since you like polls. (Of course, you may want to prepare yourself for some surprising poll results! )  I'd like to see the evidence that you know what you're trashing.

[Mirror Image]

In that case, let me ask you a simple question: Name five film composers and rank them from "most trashy" to "least trashy."  You can do this on a new thread as a poll if you want, since you like polls. (Of course, you may want to prepare yourself for some surprising poll results! )  I'd like to see the evidence that you know what you're trashing.

Yes, I agree. If James is insistent on "trashing" film composers as you say, then a poll would definitely be in order I think. I'm just curious what film scores James has actually heard?

[jowcol]

Yes, I agree. If James is insistent on "trashing" film composers as you say, then a poll would definitely be in order I think. I'm just curious what film scores James has actually heard?

We have his assurance that a complete and thorough analysis was done.

Don't go assuming too much jowol ,, i have in fact evaluated & compared film stuff thoroughly in order arrive at my informed conclusion.

[Grazioso]

We have his assurance that a complete and thorough analysis was done.

Verily, I say unto you, thou shalt not question the Arbiter of All Things! I've asked before and will ask again: let's have some specific musical examples that show how film music isn't "deep".

[karlhenning]

I probably would not listen to it on its own, but Peter Gabriel's soundtrack to Rabbit-Proof Fence served very bicely to underscore the movie.

[karlhenning]

Erm, nicely.

[jowcol]

Verily, I say unto you, thou shalt not question the Arbiter of All Things! I've asked before and will ask again: let's have some specific musical examples that show how film music isn't "deep".

One example-- whoever wrote the soundtrack for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians...

[karlhenning]

One example-- whoever wrote the soundtrack for Santa Claus Conquers the Martians...

I've sometimes wondered what Santa does the rest of the year . . . good to see him keeping his hand in.

[Mirror Image]

Approaching things like this is totally daft. You can perform analysis on anything .. and it's not a matter of 'providing evidence' either. Sad how you guys just don't understand that, you think it's something that can be proved in 'objective' terms. It's actually so much easier than that. If you can't understand the fundamental differences by merely listening (that's all it takes) to say Bach, Wagner, Debussy or Bartók to name just a few names/reasons that the legacy is actually sustained & built on  ... () and the essentially narrow & confined pastiche that film produces than that's just sad. I know what I'd rather delve into, wouldn't even have to think about it, hearing a few bars of each is all you need to make that determination as well. And it's very easy to state that true musical depth in the world of film is a non-starter. Otherwise name film music that approaches the depths of The Well-Tempered Clavier Books, St. Matthew's Passion, Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, The Rite of Spring, Béla Bartók's 6 String Quartets etc etc ...

It's sad how you cannot simply oblige us in providing some example of your analysis. What film scores have you listened to in depth?

[Grazioso]

life is just too short .. believe it, you'd best be putting your money, time & energy elsewhere if it's truly great musical art you're looking for.

Vita brevis, indeed, which is why my primary concern with music is enjoying it and learning about it, not trying to seek out or define "greatness" or "depth." Music is not science, philosophy, or religion.

[jochanaan]

...Otherwise name film music that approaches the depths of The Well-Tempered Clavier Books, St. Matthew's Passion, Tristan und Isolde, Parsifal, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, The Rite of Spring, Béla Bartók's 6 String Quartets etc etc ...

We asked you first.

[Bogey]

On another topic concerning film music, I found this article concerning the recording of the King Kong soundtrack (Part 3 of the article), which is my top pick as well as a landmark/watershed recording:



http://michaelpratt.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/the-film-music-of-max-steiner-with-emphasis-on-king-kong-1933-and-gone-with-the-wind-1939/

The actual photo from the recording session is priceless and the article reads nicely.  Enjoy!

[Mirror Image]

Hey Bogey, what do you think about Ennio Morricone?

[eyeresist]

Oddly, I don't care for the King Kong score, however influential it may have been. Last time I listened to it, I found its primitivism simplistic and boring. OTOH, I absolutely love Gone with the Wind. It really matches R Strauss at his own game, plus enlivens the traditional American songs in such way that any subsequent attempt at them risks being seen as an imitation.

[jochanaan]

On another topic concerning film music, I found this article concerning the recording of the King Kong soundtrack (Part 3 of the article), which is my top pick as well as a landmark/watershed recording:



http://michaelpratt.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/the-film-music-of-max-steiner-with-emphasis-on-king-kong-1933-and-gone-with-the-wind-1939/

The actual photo from the recording session is priceless and the article reads nicely.  Enjoy!

A priceless picture indeed!  It gives some idea of the working conditions for those musicians, as well as their numbers.  That recording chamber is almost as cramped as an orchestra pit!

And those orchestras could play!  Take it from me, an orchestra player myself: those men and women might well have been playing in any of the major orchestras of the time; they had the technique, the tone and the heart. Example: in Fantasia's original soundtrack, all but one of the tracks were actually played by the Philadelphia Orchestra, then one of the greatest in the world.  The exception is the track for The Sorcerer's Apprentice, which was played (as I recall) by the Disney house orchestra.  How many people can tell the difference?  And how about those players who played for Carl Stallings at Warner Brothers?

Also, I'd venture to guess that most of the time, they didn't get any chance to rehearse; they were probably sight-reading on those historic soundtracks.

[Bogey]

Hey Bogey, what do you think about Ennio Morricone?

Do not have much....however, not from the lack of respect, but just have not traveled down his road much.  Suggestions outside of the westerns  and The Untouchables (GREAT SCORE!!!!) welcomed.

[Bogey]

Oddly, I don't care for the King Kong score, however influential it may have been. Last time I listened to it, I found its primitivism simplistic and boring. OTOH, I absolutely love Gone with the Wind. It really matches R Strauss at his own game, plus enlivens the traditional American songs in such way that any subsequent attempt at them risks being seen as an imitation.

Fair comment.  At least you do not like the Kong score because many film music geeks, like myself, think you should.  Your opinion is actually refreshing, though it still tops my list.

A priceless picture indeed!  It gives some idea of the working conditions for those musicians, as well as their numbers.  That recording chamber is almost as cramped as an orchestra pit!

And those orchestras could play!  Take it from me, an orchestra player myself: those men and women might well have been playing in any of the major orchestras of the time; they had the technique, the tone and the heart. Example: in Fantasia's original soundtrack, all but one of the tracks were actually played by the Philadelphia Orchestra, then one of the greatest in the world.  The exception is the track for The Sorcerer's Apprentice, which was played (as I recall) by the Disney house orchestra.  How many people can tell the difference?  And how about those players who played for Carl Stallings at Warner Brothers?

Also, I'd venture to guess that most of the time, they didn't get any chance to rehearse; they were probably sight-reading on those historic soundtracks.

Great post!  Always enjoy catching up with a fellow Coloradan!