Who will it be?

[PSmith08]

Sorry, low marks for M on that one, not a shaft of wit, but it rhymes.

Anyway, Obama has somewhat surprisingly ignored my advice. He has gone for the old guy with two failed attempts at being Prezzi behind him. I am sure it has been carefully calculated, but it hardly fits with all the rhetoric of; out with the old guard of the Washington machine and in with the New Men and Women.

How will USers feel about the possibility of this guy stepping up to the top job?

Mike

President Joe Biden? That's up there with the famous "Agnew for Vice President?" spot from 1968. Of course, the Obama camp will undoubtedly say that Biden as VP quashes the questions about the Man of Hope and Glory's apparent lack of experience.

Now, here's the thing. Biden doesn't really bring anything to the ticket except for the admiration of policy wonks who would have voted for Obama regardless of the VP bid. Delaware went Democratic in 2004, so it isn't like Biden puts anything in play. My own state's junior senator, Evan Bayh, benefits from Indiana's weird love affair with him (which goes back to his father); Indiana hasn't gone Democratic since Lyndon Johnson last ran (and, to tell you even more, I think Indiana only voted for Franklin Roosevelt twice).

Those 11 electoral votes resting so gently in the Hoosier State could make a difference in a tight race (e.g., 2000), and the electorate's love for Bayh could have made those 11 votes an easy target for the Man of Hope and Glory. Should it have been Bayh? Well, no, but that's a personal thing. Should it have been someone who could put some red states in play, instead of turning the presidency into a contest for the hearts and minds of Ohio and Florida? Probably.

But keeping the Washington establishment happy with a long-time "insider" is probably high on the Obama checklist, too.

[M forever]

Sorry, low marks for M on that one, not a shaft of wit, but it rhymes. The Rev. Spooner might have put it less delicately, but more truthfully.

More truthfully? So it's not true that you guys don't have a language of your own anymore?

[knight66]

 PS, Needless to say the UK papers have not been putting the flesh on the bones in quite that way. They may well give him more attention now. I know that putting faith in leaders is usually another version of the triumph of hope over experience; it again ended in tears here in the UK with Bambi Blair, but thinking of Obama as being somehow different in a fundamental way was nice while it lasted.

Biden is experienced in foreign affairs; but is he any good? Has he a history of being proved to be on the right side of the issues?

Mike

[knight66]

More truthfully? So it's not true that you guys don't have a language of your own anymore?

You are correct, it is not true....none of what you said was true; which is why I assumed it was an attempt at wit. Just one of those things really, some you win, others fall to the ground. I am sure it won't deter you.

Mike

[lukeottevanger]

Madainn mhath, Mike, ciamar a tha thu?

(please don't reply in Gaelic, I admit I found that on wiki!)

[M forever]

Don't worry. knight doesn't speak Gaelic either. I have never met a Scottish or Irish person who could actually speak their own respective languages. I know there are some left, in some remote areas, but the vehemence with which Irish and Scottish people declare how different they are from the English is strangely not matched by an interested and expertise in their own language and culture. Pretty weird.

[lukeottevanger]

Don't worry. knight doesn't speak Gaelic either. I have never met a Scottish or Irish person who could actually speak their own respective languages. I know there are some left, in some remote areas, but the vehemence with which Irish and Scottish people declare how different they are from the English is strangely not matched by an interested and expertise in their own language and culture. Pretty weird.

Actually, I knew someone who spoke Gaelic once, and she wasn't even Scottish, nor was she some aging about-to-croak remnant. She was middle-aged, English and lived hundreds of miles from Scotland. I have no idea why she spoke it, though....

[PSmith08]

PS, Needless to say the UK papers have not been putting the flesh on the bones in quite that way. They may well give him more attention now. I know that putting faith in leaders is usually another version of the triumph of hope over experience; it again ended in tears here in the UK with Bambi Blair, but thinking of Obama as being somehow different in a fundamental way was nice while it lasted.

Biden is experienced in foreign affairs; but is he any good? Has he a history of being proved to be on the right side of the issues?

Mike

Well, define the "right side." On the domestic front, he seems to support things people like and oppose things people don't like. He did preside over the confirmation hearings of Judge Robert Bork (who got dinged) and Justice Clarence Thomas (who did not, despite Anita Hill's accusations), which presidency will likely not grab him any support with conservatives. On foreign affairs, I think he voted to authorize force in Iraq, if that's any litmus test. This Wikipedia entry seems fairly comprehensive, or at least reasonably informative. He's a fairly reasonable Democrat with a lot of Senate experience.

In my view, he's good, but nothing extraordinary. He's ballast, not to put too fine a point on it, for Obama's ship. So, does it really matter if ballast is anything great? No. As long as it does its job, all will be well.

[knight66]

Luke, I don't speak more than two words of it. I have no time for the idea. But there are more Gaelic speakers in the central lowlands than in the Highlands and some new novels are now being written in it.

Mike

[knight66]

Don't worry. knight doesn't speak Gaelic either. I have never met a Scottish or Irish person who could actually speak their own respective languages. I know there are some left, in some remote areas, but the vehemence with which Irish and Scottish people declare how different they are from the English is strangely not matched by an interested and expertise in their own language and culture. Pretty weird.

Just more of your uninformed nonsense, this time not even an attempt at being funny, which would have at least provided some point to your post. You really are the King of the Generalisations....when it suits you.

Mike

[M forever]

Don't worry. knight doesn't speak Gaelic either. I have never met a Scottish or Irish person who could actually speak their own respective languages. I know there are some left, in some remote areas, but the vehemence with which Irish and Scottish people declare how different they are from the English is strangely not matched by an interested and expertise in their own language and culture. Pretty weird.

Just more of your uninformed nonsense, this time not even an attempt at being funny, which would have at least provided some point to your post. You really are the King of the Generalisations....when it suits you.

Uh...who was it who said this just a few minutes ago:

Luke, I don't speak more than two words of it. I have no time for the idea.

Oh yes, that's right, it was you.

Apparently there aren't much more than 1.2% or so Gaelic speakers left in Scotland. So how is pointing out that most of you guys don't know your own language a "generalization"?

It's a simple fact.

And I wasn't trying to be funny. I actually think that's a really sad subject. Equally sad is your reaction to it.

[knight66]

PS, Re the foreign affairs issue, I had wondered whether his opinions at the start of an issue had proved in retrospect to be sound. From what we have been told here, his speciality is foreign affairs, but perhaps that is not really so.

I understand the point on ballast. But if the topsail is blown off, do you want to be left with this particular lump of ballast? (When I say 'you', I am not interrogating you, rather wondering how the country at large would view the prospect.)

Mike

[knight66]

Apparently there aren't much more than 1.2% or so Gaelic speakers left in Scotland. So how is pointing out that most of you guys don't know your own language a "generalization"?

It's a simple fact.

And I wasn't trying to be funny. I actually think that's a really sad subject. Equally sad is your reaction to it.

Well, needless to day, I am sad that I have saddened you. I do so hate to disappoint. However, Gaelic, though a historical language and supported by a few, is not my language, I was brought up in an English Speaking World and I don't feel obliged to delve into any arcane topics just because you want to make a rather minor debating point. Another thing I don't feel is the need to justify my personal learing inclinations to you. So, do do something else and cheer yourself up. You should know by now; I don't play by your pissing-contest rules of debate.

Mike

[M forever]

There is no pissing contest possible here since you have no piss to enter the contest with. Doesn't it make you sad yourself that you don't have a language of your own, that such an important part of your cultural heritage as the language of your ancestors is almost completely lost? That you only have the language of the people most of your countrymen vehemently declare to be so different from, the language of the oppressors?

[knight66]

No! As I have suggested, I don't feel the need to accord with your fix on this, I don't see you as some kind of arbiter here against which I need to measure myself. Surely that is clear by now between us, so your attempts to get me to justify myself go nowhere.

Now, as I know you have a pathological need to have the last word...have it, in all its splenetic splendor.

Mike

[M forever]

Justify yourself? Measure yourself? Against what? Who said anything like that? We are not even arguing about anything here. There is nothing to argue about anyway.
I just pointed out why it is hard for anyone to know that you are not English since you have no cultural identity of your own left to distinguish you from the English. I also find that an interesting subject since I think it is important for people to be connected with their cultural heritage. Well, you wouldn't be able to understand that since you don't have that.

[lukeottevanger]

To jump from 'Scots gaelic is not spoken by many people today' to 'there is no Scottish cultural identity' seems a false syllogism to say the least. And inaccurate, too.

[DavidRoss]

Putin's a Republican (a neo-con).  Shows how much you limeys know about American politics!

What?  Putin's no "Republican."  He's an authoritarian, which puts him squarely in the Democrats' camp.

Shows how much you [etc.]

Biden is experienced in foreign affairs; but is he any good? Has he a history of being proved to be on the right side of the issues?

Biden has a history of being a horse's ass.  He's long been wrong about almost everything, but that hasn't stopped him from being one of the most self-righteous loudmouths among Washington's large contingent of scaliwags unfit for public office.

I agree that he's unlikely to boost Obama's electability, for I cannot see how he would attract voters who are not already knee-jerk Liberals and thus already certain to vote for anyone who mouths the empty platitudes that are Democratic Party candidates' stock-in-trade. 

[knight66]

What?  Putin's no "Republican."  He's an authoritarian, which puts him squarely in the Democrats' camp.

Shows how much you [etc.]
Biden has a history of being a horse's ass.  He's long been wrong about almost everything, but that hasn't stopped him from being one of the most self-righteous loudmouths among Washington's large contingent of scaliwags unfit for public office.

I agree that he's unlikely to boost Obama's electability, for I cannot see how he would attract voters who are not already knee-jerk Liberals and thus already certain to vote for anyone who mouths the empty platitudes that are Democratic Party candidates' stock-in-trade. 

When I was young, it was the Tory Party that was characterised as the authoritarians and Labour stood up for our freedoms. But recently, I can quite see that New Labour has become the authoritarian party beside which, the Tory party now looks almost liberal.

David, I get the impression that you were never going to be a fan of Biden. Although I do get my information about US politics from various sources, I have to admit I also tried to discern a bit about the system from West Wing. That being so, if Bieden becomes VP, am I right in thinking you would hear a lot less of him? I get the impression that Presidents often seem to ignore VPs once installed.

Mike

[DavidRoss]

Same in the US, Mike--the Democratic Party used to stand up for civil liberties and the rights of individuals, but for a long time now they've been all about consolidating more and more power in the hands of an overweening central authority.

I've never been a fan of Biden and cannot recall ever hearing him say anything remotely true or intelligent.  He's the worst sort of politician, a self-serving hypocrite who panders to the ignorant in his rhetoric while serving the power elite in his actions. 

I watched The West Wing a couple of times when it began, but found it such shameless liberal propaganda that it made my blood boil to think of the poor naive sods who would believe such hokum, and worse, the suffering likely to be inflicted by the follies they would support because of it.

Different Presidents have given different roles to their VPs.  Obama is such an unknown quantity--a master of smoke and mirrors, sadly proving to be just another hypocritically opportunistic politico--that there's no telling what role he would have Biden play, but I suspect it would vacillate between attack dog (having him be the slimy front man on divisive partisan issues so Obama can pretend to stay above the fray and thus claim some moral authority) and special envoy to Lesotho.