Wagner's Parsifal

[Moonfish]

Just finishing up Barenboim's Parsifal, which I very much enjoyed. I think I prefer it over many of his other Wagner recordings. Relative to other Parsifal renditions I think it is in the top tier with many others.

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Finishing Levine's live Parsifal from Bayreuth in 1985, and it ranks at the very top IMHO. I understand this version is either really loved or, maybe not hated but considered as dull and uninteresting, which I find unimaginable. Also, I didn't think I would be so thrilled by such a slow version, but it is more than possible...

I'll discuss different versions as I listen to them again (or, sometimes, for the first time), but that might take a while

Like you say some people very much enjoy Levine's slow pace, while others step away from it. I haven't heard his Parsifal, but his Ring cycle definitely had that quality. Perhaps the slower pace enhances the serenity and spiritual qualities of Parsifal?

Ciao, Ilaria! The short answer to your quetion is: YES! The long one is:

One thing though: you are missing one very, very important recording of the piece, one that demonstrates that widely diverging approaches to this music are valid and worthwhile. Your missing this:


Sorry, can't help proselytizing: for me, reading the words "Parsifal" and "Boulez" on the same cover brings together what in IMHO are two of the greatest summtits of the art of music...

Boulez's Ring was my very first one so I have fond memories of it even though I haven't heard that version for quite some time. Boulez and Parsifal seems like an interesting combination. Does Boulez twist Wagner's score or does he stay true to it?

There seems to be an abundance of fantastic Parsifal recordings. I find myself at the gateway of Karajan's early live recording that many people seemingly are fascinated by (and some not so much). Probably not the best in terms of sound, but appears intriguing otherwise. Has anybody else here listened to this performance? It is my listening journey for the day! 

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[ritter]

Boulez's Ring was my very first one so I have fond memories of it even though I haven't heard that version for quite some time. Boulez and Parsifal seems like an interesting combination. Does Boulez twist Wagner's score or does he stay true to it?

Well, he certainly desacralizes the Bühnenweihfestspiel (something I like), and pays more attention to the dramatic aspects of the score than to its alleged "ritual" components. It's not a matter of speed, but yes, he's very fast. His attention to orchestral detail and transparency has also been pointed out. It is, to a certain extent, a radical rethinking of the score, something that Wieland Wagner wanted (or I'd even say, needed) after 14 (almost uninterrupted) years of Knappertsbusch's solemn approach. Now, I think there's more than one way to stay "true" to the score, and Boulez's is certainly one of them.

There seems to be an abundance of fantastic Parsifal recordings. I find myself at the gateway of Karajan's early live recording that many people seemingly are fascinated by (and some not so much). Probably not the best in terms of sound, but appears intriguing otherwise. Has anybody else here listened to this performance? It is my listening journey for the day! 
[asin] B00000K4HP[/asin]

I haven't heard it, and have read mixed reviews. It has the oddity of having two female leads: Elisabeth Höngen is the penitent Kundry, and Christa Ludwig is the seductress. Also, I have read that a chunk of Gurnemanz's narration in Act 1 was missing from the original tapes, and a recording from Bayreuth (with other singers under Knappertsbusch) was allegedly  used to fill in the gap.

[Moonfish]

Well, he certainly desacralizes the Bühnenweihfestspiel (something I like), and pays more attention to the dramatic aspects of the score than to its alleged "ritual" components. It's not a matter of speed, but yes, he's very fast. His attention to orchestral detail and transparency has also been pointed out. It is, to a certain extent, a radical rethinking of the score, something that Wieland Wagner wanted (or I'd even say, needed) after 14 (almost uninterrupted) years of Knappertsbusch's solemn approach. Now, I think there's more than one way to stay "true" to the score, and Boulez's is certainly one of them.
I haven't heard it, and have read mixed reviews. It has the oddity of having two female leads: Elisabeth Höngen is the penitent Kundry, and Christa Ludwig is the seductress. Also, I have read that a chunk of Gurnemanz's narration in Act 1 was missing from the original tapes, and a recording from Bayreuth (with other singers under Knappertsbusch) was allegedly  used to fill in the gap.

I read that Höngen could not handle the high notes so Ludwig filled in for part of Act 2 (?).  Yeah, I guess one can expect issues with a live radio broadcast recording!     At the same time I am grateful for the moment being captured. I tend to have forgiving ears when it comes to historical recordings. I will immerse myself in it today (at the moment it is dawn here with my family asleep so Parsifal's soundscape has to wait for the sun to rise a bit over the horizon).

[ritter]

I I will immerse myself in it today (at the moment it is dawn here with my family asleep so Parsifal's soundscape has to wait for the sun to rise a bit over the horizon).

In that case, the words ''He! Ho! Waldhueter ihr, Schlafhueter mitsammen, so wacht doch mindest am Morgen!'' will take on a very literal meaning    Enjoy your Parsifal sunrise!

[Lisztianwagner]

Ciao, Ilaria! The short answer to your quetion is: YES! The long one is:

One thing though: you are missing one very, very important recording of the piece, one that demonstrates that widely diverging approaches to this music are valid and worthwhile. You're missing this :


Sorry, can't help proselytizing: for me, reading the words "Parsifal" and "Boulez" on the same cover brings together what in IMHO are two of the greatest summtits of the art of music...

Very good, thank you for the feedback, Rafael!

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Wagner's Parsifal is a masterpiece, one of the most powerful and suggestive works I've ever listened to; I have got four recordings of the sacred drama par excellence, Karajan, Solti, Knappertsbusch 62 and Gatti;

Solti and Knappertsbusch are my favorite parsifal recordings, along with Levine's 1985 Bayreuth. Solti's is probably my favorite if had to pick one. Karajan would otherwise be fine recording to me except for one thing: I think his tempo is way too fast. To me Parsifal is supposed to be slow and solemn, for the most part. Karajan's tempo ruins many of those moments (not so much in act II which has more fast moments than I and III). Usually I find Karajan excellent with Wagner but I don't think Parsifal is his strongest area.Nothing personal intended to those who like Karajan's Parsifal. I actually find most of the recording quite excellent, it's just that I see "wrong" tempo as such a big thing it tends to ruin lot of it. Haven't even heard Gatti.

What annoys the heck out of me is that I once heard best Klingsor ever but I can't remember neither recording nor the singer and nowadays I can't find that sound bit anywhere. Really, I think that for his 15-20 minutes of stagetime in this almost five hour opera he is really impressive opera character. Debussy may dislike "ghost of old Klingsor" (even though he meant Wagner himself by that remark) all he wants, I won't. 

[ritter]

Really, I think that for his 15-20 minutes of stagetime in this almost five hour opera he is really impressive opera character. Debussy may dislike "ghost of old Klingsor" (even though he meant Wagner himself by that remark) all he wants, I won't. 

I agree about Klingsor, Alberich. He's no run-of-the-mill villian, but a very complex and quite fascinating character, full of contradictions. The way he was portrayed in Stefan Herheim's acclaimed Bayreuth staging (alas, never issued on DVD) was quite stunning.

As for Debussy (a composer who ranks very, very high in my own personal pantheon), he did express his dislike of Wagner, but also said that the prelude to Act 3 of Parsifal was sublime (or something to that effect). And, frankly, if there had been no Parsifal, I think there would be no Pelléas et Mélisande (at least, such as we know it).

Cheers,

[Jaakko Keskinen]

I agree about Klingsor, Alberich. He's no run-of-the-mill villian, but a very complex and quite fascinating character, full of contradictions. The way he was portrayed in Stefan Herheim's acclaimed Bayreuth staging (alas, never issued on DVD) was quite stunning.

As for Debussy (a composer who ranks very, very high in my own personal pantheon), he did express his dislike of Wagner, but also said that the prelude to Act 3 of Parsifal was sublime (or something to that effect). And, frankly, if there had been no Parsifal, I think there would be no Pelléas et Mélisande (at least, such as we know it).

Cheers,

Amen brother. I love Pelleas as well! Debussy is one of my favorite composers even though I rank Wagner higher.

[Lisztianwagner]

Solti and Knappertsbusch are my favorite parsifal recordings, along with Levine's 1985 Bayreuth. Solti's is probably my favorite if had to pick one. Karajan would otherwise be fine recording to me except for one thing: I think his tempo is way too fast. To me Parsifal is supposed to be slow and solemn, for the most part. Karajan's tempo ruins many of those moments (not so much in act II which has more fast moments than I and III). Usually I find Karajan excellent with Wagner but I don't think Parsifal is his strongest area.Nothing personal intended to those who like Karajan's Parsifal. I actually find most of the recording quite excellent, it's just that I see "wrong" tempo as such a big thing it tends to ruin lot of it. Haven't even heard Gatti.

The Knappertsbusch is also my favourite Parsifal recording, along with the Karajan; but the Solti is amazing too, and it has an excellent sound quality. The Gatti is the one performed last year at the Met, with Kaufmann and Pape; it's beautiful, but I have to admit I listened to it only once when it was broadcast on the BBC Radio.
Too fast, really?  . I have no problems with Karajan's tempo, I've always found it very fine and suitable for the great sacredness of that musikdrama. I agree Parsifal is supposed to be slow and solemn, especially because of the deep, mystical atmosphere of the matter.

[Cosi bel do]

When you all say "Knappertsbusch", it would be better to say which year, because there must be a dozen different recordings conducted by Kna...

[jochanaan]

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I think that's the one I'm familiar with.  Yes, it really is an amazing recording, fully worthy of being the "only" Parsifal recording if you're going to choose one of many.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

-62. Excellent recording (even to me, who almost never pays attention to recordings).

It has also been some time since I heard Karajan Parsifal. My memory may fail me or my taste could have improved...  IIRC, the tempo wasn't "wrong" at all parts, merely at some of the most crucial moments.

[kishnevi]

When you all say "Knappertsbusch", it would be better to say which year, because there must be a dozen different recordings conducted by Kna...

A partial discography of the opera here:  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal_discography

Although it leaves out some of the various remasterings of the 1951. " My" Knapp. is 1951 on Naxos Historical.

And an outlier....a review of the 1951 recording that is rather negative on all counts : http://www.wagnerdiscography.com/reviews/par/par51kna.htm

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Parsifal's music is great, even by Wagner's standards, and libretto is crap, even by Wagner's standards. Or so I've often heard told.

Strangely,though, I never had problem with Parsifal's libretto, IMO Wagner's prose style has been much worse (for ex. Tristan is at times utterly incomprehensible). The main fault I find with Parsifal's text is Wagner trying to be clever by insisting that "Fal parsi" is Arabic for "pure fool", thus the reason he changed Parzival to Parsifal. It's not Arabic. It's gibberish. Then there is also Gurnemanz's stupid parting comment to Parsifal at the end of Act 1. On the most part, however, it really captures me.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Then there is also Gurnemanz's stupid parting comment to Parsifal at the end of Act 1.

Are you referring to something to the order of "the gander should be allowed to chase the goose"? Probably the only attempt at humor, ever, by Wagner.

[jochanaan]

...And an outlier....a review of the 1951 recording that is rather negative on all counts : http://www.wagnerdiscography.com/reviews/par/par51kna.htm

If that's the one I'm familiar with, the author must have listened to a particularly bad remaster, or simply not known what s/he was talking about.  I've got (in storage now with all my other LPs) that Parsifal on London vinyl, and the orchestra sounds just fine.

[Karl Henning]

Are you referring to something to the order of "the gander should be allowed to chase the goose"? Probably the only attempt at humor, ever, by Wagner.

Reminds me of the comment (and I forget of whom it was originally said):  "He is at his most depressing, when he tries to be amusing."

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Are you referring to something to the order of "the gander should be allowed to chase the goose"? Probably the only attempt at humor, ever, by Wagner.

Exactly the one I had in mind!

[Mandryka]

Why doesn't Parsifal just bonk Kundry in Act 2? I mean what happens when he kisses her that turns him into Jesus?

These are the things which make me suspect that Parsifal is a load of codswallop.

[San Antone]

I thoroughly enjoyed the recent Met production with Jonas Kaufmann, despite the dark, somewhat depressive quality - I thought it suited the subject well.  Wonderful orchestral playing and singing by the various leads, especially, René Pape.