Frederick Delius

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Right now, it's Beecham, but more listens to all my versions could change that 

Definitely give Handley's on Chandos a try. It can be had for a cheap price:

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I know you own Lloyd-Jones' performance on Naxos and that's quite a good one. A work of this nature requires top-notch audio quality.

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Cilgwyn recalled liking the opera Koanga a lot and I agree that it's a fine work. Possibly one of the finest operas ever written. It's not too long and it's not too short. It falls in a happy medium. One particular section I still recall quite vividly is the Dance: Furioso (on the Koanga CD set w/ Groves this is the fourth track on the second disc). The movement begins with a huge rhythmic explosion and this intense section finally subsides to something more lyrical. Anyone who thinks Delius is all flowing, rhapsodic music will be dumbfounded to find out that their preconceived notion is completely shot down. Open your ears naysayers!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I bought a track through Classics Online a few hours ago - Handley's Cuckoo...
My verdict: beautiful, but it won't topple Beecham from his pedestal for me. Two reasons - 1) Handley is too strenuous, he wants the piece to be and do too much. The piece should sound like a lullaby, with its gently swaying, cradling metre, but Handley introduces all kinds of dynamic contrasts, which certainly would wake every baby... 2) In the final part the very meaningful string contribution is almost completely inaudible in favour of the repeated cuckoo motif. The string harmonies really cannot be missed there.
I also listened to Barry Wordsworth - too slow. I have an oldie waiting for me now, a reading by Anthony Collins.


I'll be back.

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Sorry you didn't enjoy Handley's Cuckoo that much, Johan. For me, it remains the definitive account. I have not heard better, although Handley's earlier account on EMI was quite good, it still doesn't touch his later performance. Mackerras and Lloyd-Jones has a pretty good Cuckoo. Del Mar I remember being decent as well. But no performance will top my preferred choice. I disagree that Handley is too strenuous. I don't think it should sound like a lullaby. I think it should sound like whatever it is at that moment. I like the dynamic contrasts in Handley's performance, in fact, it's these contrasts that give the work more of a backbone. I feel the same way about his Summer Night on the River. It doesn't get much better than this for me. Handley gives these works more color and depth which I particularly respond to and haven't in other performances I've heard. Handley opened my ears up to this work, which I can't say for any other conductor. Handley is such an underrated Delian I think, but he really understands this music I think and conducts it well.

I'll go ahead and spill the beans, I don't care much for Beecham's Delius performances. Whether this is taboo or shameful thing amongst other Delians is not of much importance to me, I simply don't enjoy them. Delius requires incredible audio quality, which Beecham unfortunately didn't have. Give me Mackerras, Hickox, Handley, Del Mar, Davies, Groves, Barbirolli, etc. over Beecham any day of the week.

[snyprrr]

Sorry you didn't enjoy Handley's Cuckoo that much, Johan. For me, it remains the definitive account. I have not heard better, although Handley's earlier account on EMI was quite good, it still doesn't touch his later performance. Mackerras and Lloyd-Jones has a pretty good Cuckoo. Del Mar I remember being decent as well. But no performance will top my preferred choice. I disagree that Handley is too strenuous. I don't think it should sound like a lullaby. I think it should sound like whatever it is at that moment. I like the dynamic contrasts in Handley's performance, in fact, it's these contrasts that give the work more of a backbone. I feel the same way about his Summer Night on the River. It doesn't get much better than this for me. Handley gives these works more color and depth which I particularly respond to and haven't in other performances I've heard. Handley opened my ears up to this work, which I can't say for any other conductor. Handley is such an underrated Delian I think, but he really understands this music I think and conducts it well.

I'll go ahead and spill the beans, I don't care much for Beecham's Delius performances. Whether this is taboo or shameful thing amongst other Delians is not of much importance to me, I simply don't enjoy them. Delius requires incredible audio quality, which Beecham unfortunately didn't have. Give me Mackerras, Hickox, Handley, Del Mar, Davies, Groves, Barbirolli, etc. over Beecham any day of the week.

sacre bleu!!


I want all my Delius performances grey and still and lulling. No backbone here, please.

[cilgwyn]

And me,too!
Mind you,I quite like Grove's handling of 'Lifes Dance','North Country Sketches','Eventyr' & 'Dance Rhapsody No1' on an emi studio cd,in my collection.Now,that really is outrageous! No one rates those Grove performances!
I am a bit of a Beecham fan,I admit. I have just added two Sony cds of his fifties performances,in mono,to my collection (actually one is still in the post) & today I bought the emi box set of his recordings of English music!
I can't wait!

Incidentally,one of the Sony cds includes Beechams performance of the 'Hassan' incidental music. Sublime! I know MI doesn't care for mono recordings (?) but he's dead right about 'Hassan' being wonderful music.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Perhaps it's a generational thing, John. I am from pre-CD times. Of course I like perfect sound, but performance overrides sound. That's why I love Furtwängler's war recordings of Beethoven, for instance. They are of a searing intensity, even in mono. I understand what you like about Handley's performance - he really moulds the music. Perhaps I am just too used to Beecham. I noticed that the Collins performance from the 1950s is more in line with Handley's, both last over 6 minutes, Beecham is 7 minutes and Wordsworths adds almost another 30 seconds. It seems the ideal length would be around 6 minutes and 40 seconds!


I'll be listening to the Handley performance later again tonight.


O, and if you don't like Beecham's Delius, you're perfectly entitled to not liking him.


P.S. As for Handley's giving the piece more 'backbone' - it is already there, in the subtleties of the harmony. The music can breathe on its own without too much help, you 'just' have to bring out the tensions that are already there. I know Handley, he did wonders for Bax, another composer vilified for being formless. But there, too, sometimes, Handley sometimes seemed too dominant, compared to, say, Bryden Thomson.

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I understand Johan and respect that you're older than I am, therefore, of a different generation. I enjoy Delius in proper stereo with a nice ambience to the sound image, but I do respect and admire what Beecham has done for Delius. That I can't squabble about or deny. He was a true champion of Delius. As for my 'backbone' comment, I meant this in regard to orchestral heft and lushness, which I believe Handley achieves better than anyone.

Cilgwyn, Hassan is a remarkable work, but I urge you to seek out Handley's on EMI. Handley conducts the complete score and it truly is magical from start to finish.

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Re: The Song of the High Hills

Truly a remarkable piece of music. Right now, I'm really favoring the new Andrew Davis recording with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Anyone else heard this performance? I think he brings a great clarity to the work. Bo Holten's on Danacord is also quite good. Fenby's is still a performance I enjoy as I do Mackerras on Decca.

[cilgwyn]

Beechams performance of 'Hassan' is magical & the mono sound really doesn't hinder my enjoyment. I'm a bit of a fan of early electrical & acoustic recordings of orchestral works so I seem to have trained my ears to ignore their limitations. My first record player was actually a 1920s wind up hmv,which I still own! And no,I'm not that old (yet!) My grandparents were getting rid of it & my parents being a bit hard up,it was my first encounter with any kind of record player! So perhaps,my tolerance stems from there!
Anyway,back to 'Hassan'!! I had never heard this,apart from one or two bits,which struck me as a bit 'kitsch' at the time! Now,I'm a bit of a Delius 'fan' I'm very impressed by what I've heard & I certainly would like to hear it in more modern stereo. Unfortunately,as you have observed in an earlier post;it is rather hard to get;but I will certainly keep an eye out for it. You have to be patient & keep looking,don't you? Of course,it may be in a box set;but at the moment I have quite allot of Delius & I'm not too keen on splashing out,too much!
Incidentally,I notice Brian Rayner Cook is on the Handley recording. A bit of a hero to us Brianites (Johan! ) due to his recordings of HB's songs & sadly,commercially unavailable (but as a download at the AMF forum! ) haunting,'Wine of Summer' (Fifth Symphony).

While,I was listening to the Groves 'Mass of Life',I kept wondering what some of the ecstatic,wordless,vocalising reminded me of. Of course,I wasn't focusing that hard,because I was busy doing other things (cordless headphones!). Suddenly,I remembered & I suppose,this might sound ridiculous;but the wordless choruses (I forget exactly where) were reminding me of the ones in Schreker's 'Die Gezeichneten'. I'm not an expert on the opera,or a particular admirer;but I think the bit's I'm thinking of are the ones in the grotto where all the debauchery is going on! Not saying that Delius sounds like Schreker,please note;but the lushness of the orchestration & those sighing choirs. (And like Schreker,Delius can sound a bit erotic at times! Albeit,in a different way) It just (albeit briefly) reminded me,that's all!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Klassic Haus has restored the Brian Fifth, cilgwyn...

As for your mention of Schreker - well, you are right. Delius does share his lushness with Schreker, Scriabin, Strauss, Marx, Korngold, Schmitt et al, with one big difference: he has a Nordic clarity and French precision. It isn't all heaving strings and chromatic orgasms (pardonnez le mot!)


And this, appropriately, is my 8000th post.

[cilgwyn]

Klassic Haus has restored the Brian Fifth, cilgwyn...

As for your mention of Schreker - well, you are right. Delius does share his lushness with Schreker, Scriabin, Strauss, Marx, Korngold, Schmitt et al, with one big difference: he has a Nordic clarity and French precision. It isn't all heaving strings and chromatic orgasms (pardonnez le mot!)


And this, appropriately, is my 8000th post.

Only 8000?! Congratulations,Johan! I'm not quite there,yet!!
Not too much of that stifling chromaticism,thank goodness! I was merely referring to some of those wordless choruses (not the la!la! la! ones!). I'll have to jot down where they occur! The resemblance was only fleeting,and I forget where it occurs;but the similarity was striking & I just thought I would mention it.

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Yeah, cilgwyn, Handley's Hassan is hard to track down and unfortunately is now tied up in box sets now (the 150th Anniversary EMI set and the forthcoming EMI Eminence set). To my knowledge, Handley's Hassan has only been issued twice. Both recordings are out-of-print. I'm seriously disappointed that it wasn't released in the Classics for Pleasure budget line. Unless you can find a used copy for a good price, you'll not be able to hear it unless you subscribe to NML, which I don't have time for as I own too many recordings.

I do think Delius shares some similarities to Schreker, but he shares similarities with a lot of composers but sounds nothing like any of them. In fact, no other composer sounds like Delius and thank goodness for this. One Delius at a time please! Anyway, I agree with what Johan said, there's a lot of different elements that stir the Delian pot. He really dipped into so many different cultures and absorbed so much in the process. How he was able to reconcile these influences remains truly singular.

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And this, appropriately, is my 8000th post.

Congrats! Let's keep 'em coming!

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Speaking of Schreker, for me, it doesn't get much better than Prelude to a Drama. A remarkable work IMHO.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thanks, gents. I'll never get past you, John...


As for wordless voices/choruses, they occur in Ravel (Daphnis), Nielsen (Third), RVW (Pastoral, Antarctica), Debussy (Nocturnes) and in Delius (Song of High Hills, perhaps the core passage in the whole of Delius). There will be other composers... O - Brian: Gothic, Judex movement.

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Thanks, gents. I'll never get past you, John...

Don't worry here's what I've come to know: 10000 = no life, anything less from this number = a busy, fruitful existence.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

 


Okay, 2000 posts to go, then.

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Okay, 2000 posts to go, then.

[mjwal]

Proffering my humble respects to all you worthy fluent gentlemen of the keyboard, die Vielschreiber unter uns, I would like to remark that one of the most beautiful Delius recordings I know is the lateish live Beecham performance of In A Summer Garden with the RPO - one forgets about recording quality (very fine for the time, though) and sinks into a vision of paradise. But rhythmically how well judged to keep it moving in a kind of lazy fine rapture (on Somm with Schubert and Wagner).