Frederick Delius

[Mirror Image]

Indeed, what a loser and what a waste of time  .

+1 re: him being a composer without a specific country.

Ha! I'm not sure if I'd call the writer a loser, but it certainly does raise one's eyebrow, doesn't it?

There seems to be no new Delius recordings on the horizon, which I suppose shows how popular he is. I have a few questions for you, André: what was the first work you heard by Delius? Was this work love on first listen? What would you say are your favorite works from Delius? Would you say Delius' music is difficult for people to understand? If yes, why do you feel this way?

[André]

I will sleep over this and get back to you tomorrow 

[Mirror Image]

I will sleep over this and get back to you tomorrow 

Sounds like a plan.

Since you're thinking this one over, how about I go first?

1. What was the first work you heard by Delius?

In a Summer Garden. I had to hit the repeat button as soon as it was over. I probably even listened to it again. The Delian sound-world consumed me from the opening measures. I've been a huge fan of his music ever since even though I did go through a period of questioning his importance in my own life, but this is nonsense as one truly never forgets composers who have meant the most to you.

2. Was this work love on first listen?

Absolutely!

3. What would you say are your favorite works from Delius?

A difficult question, but here are some long-standing favorites: In a Summer Garden, Songs of Sunset, Sea Drift, Appalachia, Mass Of Life, Requiem, Violin Concerto, Double Concerto, Violin Sonata No. 3, A Village Romeo & Juliet, Two Pieces for Small Orchestra (On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring, Summer Night on the River), Brigg Fair, Piano Concerto, Three Preludes for Piano, To Be Sung of a Summer Night on the Water, Hassan, String Quartet, Koanga, and Song of the High Hills. All of these works have impressed me over and over through the years, but I'm sure there are others, but I'll stick with this particular group of works for now.

4. Would you say Delius' music is difficult for people to understand? If yes, why do you feel this way?

This is a complicated question. I've known many Delians and several of them lurk here, but there seems to be an unjust backlash when the name Delius is uttered. It's curious to know why this is the case. Basically, I'm of the opinion nowadays that people who don't 'get' Delius are people that don't really understand where the composer is coming from musically. In his mature works, his compositional voice is, without question, unique and singular. The listeners that seem to not like him are puzzled by the lack of drama in his music. His music doesn't exactly hit you over the head, although the opening bars to Mass Of Life are a notable exception. To me, he is one of the first composers to write ambient music. Not background music, but music that relies heavily on atmosphere and texture to convey a particular feeling or mood. His chromatic harmony also seems to give listeners a problem (or so I've read). To me, I think it gives the music color and each sliding chordal voicing is like a different hue of whatever color is being sounded. It gives the music this sense of forward motion. Since one of my interests in music is harmony, Delius was a composer whose musical language I absorbed completely. He still surprises me, too. There were moments when I was listening to Mass Of Life today where I had forgotten how brilliant it was with these unexpected, shifting harmonies, but also the sheer melodicism of the music. I've read that Delius isn't fun to play for an orchestra, but that's because he didn't care anything about making his music fun to play, but, rather, he wanted it to say something to the listener. He, I'm assuming, wanted his music to tell a story and unfortunately the vessel in which this story must be told isn't always pleasurable for the performer, but for this listener, it most certainly is. [I've heard similar things said about Bruckner as well] Anyway, this is more or less my two cents on this particular topic.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I generally like Delius and I think has a distinct compositional voice and technique. It involves weaving the music from simple motifs, building an all encompassing lyricism. But it leaves him with a limited toolbox, a narrow range of expression. I like the music a lot, but a little goes a along way..

I learned the music from the magnificent Barbirolli collection and never felt a need to look farther. Probably "A Walk to the Paradise Garden and Briggs Fair are my favorite pieces.

[Mirror Image]

I generally like Delius and I think has a distinct compositional voice and technique. It involves weaving the music from simple motifs, building an all encompassing lyricism. But it leaves him with a limited toolbox, a narrow range of expression. I like the music a lot, but a little goes a along way..

I learned the music from the magnificent Barbirolli collection and never felt a need to look farther. Probably "A Walk to the Paradise Garden and Briggs Fair are my favorite pieces.

This is a criticism I've read many, many times. Of course, I respect your opinion, but I don't hear any narrow range of expression or a limited toolbox in works like Hassan, Appalachia, or Paris, The Song of a Great City to give three examples. Even a large work like Mass Of Life and Song of the High Hills have surprising turns of phrase that will leave one saying "Where in the world did this come from?" What I do agree with is that many of his works have a certain soundscape that one either has fully accepted or continues to remain indifferent to. I think one of the general problems is a lot of his music is slow-moving. Those expecting Stravinskian rhythms will be sorely disappointed. This is music to dream by and to appreciate in a different way than one might appreciate Janáček or Shostakovich. I recommend looking beyond that Barbirolli set and try some works that you haven't heard before. My only hope is that you'll keep an open-mind and understand that Delius doesn't do what you feel he should do. One simply needs to go with the musical flow and forget everything else.

[Biffo]

There is a lot in these recent postings to digest so I may come back later, but for now -

I don't think of Delius as 'English', pastoral or otherwise - his influences were many and he has a unique voice
A Mass of Life and the Requiem have always eluded me, I don't like his choral writing in these works.
Sir Mark Elder and the Halle have recorded Brigg Fair and several shorter works but nothing substantial. The premature death of Richard Hickox was a grievous loss.

[aukhawk]

They've also recorded Sea Drift. 



Prompted by this thread, I've just set aside half an hour to listen to this wonderful music (spoilt at the end of this recording by the audience applause).  Over the years I've listened to several recordings of Sea Drift but can never really get away from the magic of the old Thomas Beecham version ...

[Biffo]

They've also recorded Sea Drift. 



Prompted by this thread, I've just set aside half an hour to listen to this wonderful music (spoilt at the end of this recording by the audience applause).  Over the years I've listened to several recordings of Sea Drift but can never really get away from the magic of the old Thomas Beecham version ...

Thanks for reminding me of Sea Drift etc from the Halle; this is a disc I have been dithering about for a while.

[Mirror Image]

There is a lot in these recent postings to digest so I may come back later, but for now -

I don't think of Delius as 'English', pastoral or otherwise - his influences were many and he has a unique voice
A Mass of Life and the Requiem have always eluded me, I don't like his choral writing in these works.
Sir Mark Elder and the Halle have recorded Brigg Fair and several shorter works but nothing substantial. The premature death of Richard Hickox was a grievous loss.

I've 'kind of' liked Mass of Life for a long-time, but it finally clicked with me yesterday and so I must count it as amongst the other works that I have loved for years. Requiem is a strange kettle of fish, but I loved it on first-listen about 10 years ago. It doesn't exactly reveal its' secrets so easily, but I what a glorious noise it makes. Yeah, Elder has recorded a good bit of Delius, but I wouldn't count him amongst my favorite Delian conductors. As aukhawk pointed out, he also recorded Sea Drift to mixed results, IMHO. I think the best recorded performance of Sea Drift I've heard has been from Thomas Hampson with Hickox (+ the BBC National Orchestra of Wales) on a BBC Music Magazine free CD:



To say it's exquisite would be an understatement. Track it down if you can.

[Mirror Image]

They've also recorded Sea Drift. 



Prompted by this thread, I've just set aside half an hour to listen to this wonderful music (spoilt at the end of this recording by the audience applause).  Over the years I've listened to several recordings of Sea Drift but can never really get away from the magic of the old Thomas Beecham version ...

I never have cared much for Beecham's Delius. He's a conductor that lacked a certain nuance and sensitivity that this music, IMHO, most definitely requires. Anthony Collins was a much better Delian than Beecham.

[aukhawk]

It's just that in Sea Drift you're completely at the mercy of the baritone - and of those I've heard I like Bruce Boyce best.

Thanks for reminding me of Sea Drift etc from the Halle; this is a disc I have been dithering about for a while.

It's a fine recording - and when I mentioned the applause, it's not that intrusive, there is a respectful silence first - it's just that when you're sitting there deciding whether to cut your own throat now, or wait until after lunch - the last thing you need is a standing ovation !

[Mirror Image]

It's just that in Sea Drift you're completely at the mercy of the baritone - and of those I've heard I like Bruce Boyce best.

I understand, but I will say that the orchestral accompaniment in Sea Drift is quite important and Beecham drives the music a bit too hard for my liking. Of course, we both love the work and that's what really matters here.

[Biffo]

I have ordered the Halle/Elder disc and also decided to give the Mass of Life another try with a used copy of the Hickox version - hopefully a modern recording will overcome some of my reservations

[Dima]

I figured it was high time I raised this thread from the fiery pit of eternal damnation, which I'm sure many of you would like for it to remain. Anyway, I couldn't help but to read this article again:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/9383360/The-chromatic-slithering-of-Delius-leaves-me-cold.html

My problem with the article isn't the fact that the writer dislikes Delius' music but the fact that he felt the need to even write the article in the first place and publish it. It's one thing to say you dislike a composer, but to devote a whole article as to why you dislike a composer seems over-the-top. Also, this Delian DOES NOT consider him English. He's only English in that he was born in Bradford, but, for me, Delius will forever remain a composer without a specific country.

I don't respect such views as in the article.
Music for someone is like sport - you must curse the opposing team, and praise your team. The same is with composer's fans.
I don't know much of Delius music but orchestral music of Delius is almost genius. I know that Elgar is more popular in Britain.
But from my point of view they are comparable composers, from whom I prefer Delius.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

This is a criticism I've read many, many times. Of course, I respect your opinion, but I don't hear any narrow range of expression or a limited toolbox in works like Hassan, Appalachia, or Paris, The Song of a Great City to give three examples. Even a large work like Mass Of Life and Song of the High Hills have surprising turns of phrase that will leave one saying "Where in the world did this come from?" What I do agree with is that many of his works have a certain soundscape that one either has fully accepted or continues to remain indifferent to. I think one of the general problems is a lot of his music is slow-moving. Those expecting Stravinskian rhythms will be sorely disappointed. This is music to dream by and to appreciate in a different way than one might appreciate Janáček or Shostakovich. I recommend looking beyond that Barbirolli set and try some works that you haven't heard before. My only hope is that you'll keep an open-mind and understand that Delius doesn't do what you feel he should do. One simply needs to go with the musical flow and forget everything else.

You don't have to sell me on Delius, except for the Mass of Life I've heard everything you've mentioned and I find a lot of it exquisite. I'm not interested in the vocal music, but I still have his chamber music to explore (violin sonatas, cello sonata, string quartet). I'll get to it eventually.

[Mirror Image]

I have ordered the Halle/Elder disc and also decided to give the Mass of Life another try with a used copy of the Hickox version - hopefully a modern recording will overcome some of my reservations

Excellent! Mass Of Life is an incredible work, but it does require patience. It's also Delius' largest, and longest, work. The Hickox recording is exquisite.

[Mirror Image]

I don't respect such views as in the article.
Music for someone is like sport - you must curse the opposing team, and praise your team. The same is with composer's fans.
I don't know much of Delius music but orchestral music of Delius is almost genius. I know that Elgar is more popular in Britain.
But from my point of view they are comparable composers, from whom I prefer Delius.

I still say the article was pointless and downright nasty. As I stated previously, if you don't like a composer, that's alright with me, but to dedicate a whole article to your disdain for a composer is ridiculous. Good that you like Delius. He rewards the listener the more you dig into his oeuvre.

[Mirror Image]

You don't have to sell me on Delius, except for the Mass of Life I've heard everything you've mentioned and I find a lot of it exquisite. I'm not interested in the vocal music, but I still have his chamber music to explore (violin sonatas, cello sonata, string quartet). I'll get to it eventually.

Great to hear, Scarpia. Sorry, it seems I've been trying to sell listeners on Delius for years. Perhaps I should just throw in the towel?

[Mirror Image]

By the way, I would love for all the participants (sans those who dislike Delius ) to answer these questions:

1. What was the first work you heard by Delius? Was this work love on first-listen?

2. What would you say are your favorite works from Delius?

3. Would you say Delius' music is difficult for people to understand? If yes, why do you feel this way?

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Great to hear, Scarpia. Sorry, it seems I've been trying to sell listeners on Delius for years. Perhaps I should just throw in the towel?

You don't get it. Barbirolli sold me on Delius decades ago. Music sells music, not words.

Delius was Barbirolli's last recording. He had serious heart disease. He collapsed on the podium in the middle of the session and was taken to Hospital. He checked himself out of the hospital and returned to Kingsway Hall to finish the recording. He lived another two weeks after that.