Frederick Delius

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I quite liked it --- nay, it sounded right up my alley, actually. So where do I get from here?

IMHO, no one surpasses Barbirolli

[asin]B000002S5L[/asin]

The well known miniatures and two of the large scale pieces.

[André]

An excellent set indeed, lots of Delius miles will be covered with it  .

Sea Drift and the Florida Suite should be sought too.

[Roasted Swan]

IMHO, no one surpasses Barbirolli

[asin]B000002S5L[/asin]

The well known miniatures and two of the large scale pieces.

Wasn't the Appalachia in this box Barbirolli's very last recording....?

[Biffo]

Wasn't the Appalachia in this box Barbirolli's very last recording....?

Barbirolli collapsed while recording Appalachia but recovered and carried on. The following day (18th July 1970) he completed Appalachia and the recorded Brigg Fair.

He carried on rehearsing and giving concerts including Elgar 1 in King's Lynn (24th July), his last live recording. His last performance was of Beethoven 7.  He rehearsed Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem and Beethoven's Eroica on 28th July and died the same night of a massive heart attack.

[Roasted Swan]

Barbirolli collapsed while recording Appalachia but recovered and carried on. The following day (18th July 1970) he completed Appalachia and the recorded Brigg Fair.

He carried on rehearsing and giving concerts including Elgar 1 in King's Lynn (24th July), his last live recording. His last performance was of Beethoven 7.  He rehearsed Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem and Beethoven's Eroica on 28th July and died the same night of a massive heart attack.

thankyou for clarifying that.  A curious rather poignant aptness that Delius and Appalachia in particular were indeed part of Barbirolli's final studio recording given that Delius is very much pre-occupied with the idea of transience parting and farewell.  There is that extraordinarily rapturous climax at the end of Appalachia; "t'wards the morning lift a voice, let the scented woods rejoice and echoes swell across the mighty stream" before the music fades to quiet reflection - quite possibly my favourite moment in all Delius along with the closing pages of "A Village Romeo & Juliet" which inhabit a very similar emotional world.....

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Wasn't the Appalachia in this box Barbirolli's very last recording....?

Proof that no one reads my posts! 

You don't get it. Barbirolli sold me on Delius decades ago. Music sells music, not words.

Delius was Barbirolli's last recording. He had serious heart disease. He collapsed on the podium in the middle of the session and was taken to Hospital. He checked himself out of the hospital and returned to Kingsway Hall to finish the recording. He lived another two weeks after that.

[aukhawk]

Delius was Barbirolli's last recording. He had serious heart disease. He collapsed on the podium in the middle of the session and was taken to Hospital. He checked himself out of the hospital and returned to Kingsway Hall to finish the recording. He lived another two weeks after that.

That must have cost a fortune, at MU session rates.

[Biffo]

That must have cost a fortune, at MU session rates.

Barbirolli collapsed just before the afternoon 3 hour session was due to start. An ambulance was called but Barbirolli was determined to carry on. After consulting his doctor, Michael Linnet, on the phone he went home to rest. Presumably the session was cancelled; there was no hospital visit and no orchestra waiting round for him. He returned next day to finish Appalachia and then recorded Brigg Fair - his last studio recording.

Source: Barbirolli Conductor Laureate by Michael Kennedy

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Barbirolli collapsed just before the afternoon 3 hour session was due to start. An ambulance was called but Barbirolli was determined to carry on. After consulting his doctor, Michael Linnet, on the phone he went home to rest. Presumably the session was cancelled; there was no hospital visit and no orchestra waiting round for him. He returned next day to finish Appalachia and then recorded Brigg Fair - his last studio recording.

Source: Barbirolli Conductor Laureate by Michael Kennedy

There you go, reading books, when I was trying to recall what I read in the CD booklet notes. I returned to the booklet just now, less detailed that what you found out. One interesting detail, a photograph of Barbirolli in the control room listening to playback of the tapes of Appalachia with the record producer. He's got a cigarette in his mouth. Just the cure for a man who had been passing out with heart attacks.

[kyjo]

I don't think that Delius will be one of my favorite British (or whatever nationality) composers, but I do enjoy some works of his, being my overall favorite Florida Suite. In spite of being an early work, it's a sincere, pastoral, lovely and bucolic piece of a significant inspiration. Besides it, the violin sonatas, Appalachia and the String Quartet are other firm favorites. I've listened to the most of his orchestral works, whilst they are pleasant, they don't grab me as much as I wanted.

Very much agree with this. The lovely Florida Suite may not be mature Delius, but it's by some distance the work of his which I return to the most. I'd also add North Country Sketches and the Piano Concerto to my list of favorite Delius works.

[kyjo]

The only Delius I've heard so far is Idylle de Printemps from this:



I quite liked it --- nay, it sounded right up my alley, actually. So where do I get from here?

Andrei, you'd absolutely LOVE the Florida Suite!!

[Roasted Swan]

I've been thinking about buying this disc for ages and recently took the plunge.

[asin]B004Q2TWQG[/asin]

Very good versions of both works recorded in Chandos' favoured slightly recessed SA-CD sound.  I must admit I prefer the immediacy and 'bite' of their older house-recording style.  I read somewhere that they might be giving up on the SA-CD/muti-channel format.

As far as performances go I'm not always that enamoured of Davis in Delius but this is one of his better discs.  Would it automatically supplant other/older/favourite versions?.......

[asin]B000024K0W[/asin]  [asin]B000002S5L[/asin]
[asin]B000050PPM[/asin]  [asin]B00000E42H[/asin]

no ..... but glad to have it for comparison (if pushed for one I'd go for the BBC Radio Classics version)

[Maestro267]

How convenient this thread should show up. I picked up a disc last week of Delius orchestral works, including Paris: The Song of a Great City, Brigg Fair and In A Summer Garden (BBC SO/A. Davis). I vaguely recall hearing Paris at a Prom some time ago.

[vers la flamme]

Anyone been listening to Delius lately?

My opinions on this composer keep going back and forth. I was initially really impressed, when I heard the Florida Suite. I was excited that a composer created a work in tribute to my home state. So then, perhaps jumping the gun a little bit, I bought a 2CD with the Florida Suite and another hour and a half of other Delius works, conducted by Charles Mackerras. I listened to the 2CD once and hated it, thought it was the most tedious, boring music I'd ever heard.

Fast forward to a few days ago, I ended up getting this set for dirt cheap:



Having spent the past week listening to it, I find that the Delius works included are my favorites on the whole 2CD. What's going on? Is the blame for my initial underwhelmedness to lie with Mackerras? Or was I just not in the right mood then, and I am now? Well, those questions are for me to figure out myself, but I'm happy to count myself as one of those who appreciate Delius' music. My favorite of the works I've heard is "The Walk to Paradise Garden" from A Village Romeo and Juliet. One of these days, a couple of years down the line, perhaps, when I understand opera better, I will hear the whole opera.

Meanwhile, what are some other Delius works worthy of consideration? I really do not know much about this composer.

Finally, just a random question, do you consider Delius to be a late Romantic composer, like an Elgar, or a Modernist composer like a Vaughan Williams? Both? Just curious.

[Roasted Swan]

Anyone been listening to Delius lately?

My opinions on this composer keep going back and forth. I was initially really impressed, when I heard the Florida Suite. I was excited that a composer created a work in tribute to my home state. So then, perhaps jumping the gun a little bit, I bought a 2CD with the Florida Suite and another hour and a half of other Delius works, conducted by Charles Mackerras. I listened to the 2CD once and hated it, thought it was the most tedious, boring music I'd ever heard.

Fast forward to a few days ago, I ended up getting this set for dirt cheap:



Meanwhile, what are some other Delius works worthy of consideration? I really do not know much about this composer.

Finally, just a random question, do you consider Delius to be a late Romantic composer, like an Elgar, or a Modernist composer like a Vaughan Williams? Both? Just curious.

I think Delius is an artist (NB: NOT composer) of his age and place.  And by place I do really mean end of the 19th Century Paris.  For all of where he came from/trained etc I think that kind of cafe bohemian lifestyle with creatives from all the Arts mingling is the essence of who he was.  Sprinkle in a fair dash of Grieg/Scandanavian hills etc light the blue touch paper and off you go.

Your question about Late Romantic/Modernist is a good one and I think the answer is both.  Delius is most fascinated with the concept of transient beauty - all things decay and die and then there is nothing.  So the key is to preserve the moment of ultimate beauty.  Its not a preservation in aspic - its the capturing of one moment.  Most of his greatest works contain what might be called "gestures of farewell" - an acknowledgement of passing.  The Walk to the Paradise Garden is a good example - in the context of the opera (although a late addition to the work to cover a scene change!) it represents the two young lovers biding farewell to the world before the their suicide pact - which in turn is "witnessed" by oarsmen on the river 'passing by'.  Likewise - Appalachia - one of his greatest works I feel - is a set of variations on a song about departure and climaxes towards the end with a great choral rapturous cry.

Delius is most certainly not a virtuoso orchestrator in the manner of many late-19th century composers but goodness me he is individual - mainly achieved by his harmonic progressions.  Harmonically he writes little if anything many of his contemporaries weren't emulating or writing in a more advanced manner  - but his juxtaposition of chord to chord is unique and instantly recognisable.  The Straussian "Paris" is probably the nearest he got to try and write a typical big tone poem - some of it is stunning but as often the case with Delius its the 'mood' moments rather than the big set pieces that work best.  Vocal music is inextricably linked with so much of his music so if you are not into opera or choral works much will not engage you (I enjoy the sheer energy of much of Mass of Life but struggle to engage with its philosophy for example).  However, I would say "A Late Lark" is stunning - and for me very moving.  Of the other bigger orchestral works "A Song of the High Hills" captures much of essence of Delius.

Mackerras I have to say I like in Delius - more robust than others.  The idea that his music is this delicate scented-hankie music is quite wrong but it is elusive.  Also his greatest limitation is also his greatest strength which is that he does have a limited expressive range.  Most of his music does revisit a certain mood or outlook.  When you are in the mood it is amazing, if not then there is little to engage.  He remains one of my favourite composers because I think he is a visionary and I respond to his aesthetic.

[vers la flamme]

I think Delius is an artist (NB: NOT composer) of his age and place.  And by place I do really mean end of the 19th Century Paris.  For all of where he came from/trained etc I think that kind of cafe bohemian lifestyle with creatives from all the Arts mingling is the essence of who he was.  Sprinkle in a fair dash of Grieg/Scandanavian hills etc light the blue touch paper and off you go.

Your question about Late Romantic/Modernist is a good one and I think the answer is both.  Delius is most fascinated with the concept of transient beauty - all things decay and die and then there is nothing.  So the key is to preserve the moment of ultimate beauty.  Its not a preservation in aspic - its the capturing of one moment.  Most of his greatest works contain what might be called "gestures of farewell" - an acknowledgement of passing.  The Walk to the Paradise Garden is a good example - in the context of the opera (although a late addition to the work to cover a scene change!) it represents the two young lovers biding farewell to the world before the their suicide pact - which in turn is "witnessed" by oarsmen on the river 'passing by'.  Likewise - Appalachia - one of his greatest works I feel - is a set of variations on a song about departure and climaxes towards the end with a great choral rapturous cry.

Delius is most certainly not a virtuoso orchestrator in the manner of many late-19th century composers but goodness me he is individual - mainly achieved by his harmonic progressions.  Harmonically he writes little if anything many of his contemporaries weren't emulating or writing in a more advanced manner  - but his juxtaposition of chord to chord is unique and instantly recognisable.  The Straussian "Paris" is probably the nearest he got to try and write a typical big tone poem - some of it is stunning but as often the case with Delius its the 'mood' moments rather than the big set pieces that work best.  Vocal music is inextricably linked with so much of his music so if you are not into opera or choral works much will not engage you (I enjoy the sheer energy of much of Mass of Life but struggle to engage with its philosophy for example).  However, I would say "A Late Lark" is stunning - and for me very moving.  Of the other bigger orchestral works "A Song of the High Hills" captures much of essence of Delius.

Mackerras I have to say I like in Delius - more robust than others.  The idea that his music is this delicate scented-hankie music is quite wrong but it is elusive.  Also his greatest limitation is also his greatest strength which is that he does have a limited expressive range.  Most of his music does revisit a certain mood or outlook.  When you are in the mood it is amazing, if not then there is little to engage.  He remains one of my favourite composers because I think he is a visionary and I respond to his aesthetic.

Excellent post, Roasted Swan. You've given me a lot to think about, and these words may contain the key to what is drawing me into Delius' music. When you talk about transient beauty, this is a very fascinating aspect of life on earth to me, perhaps the most fascinating, and it is also one of the most difficult things to capture in art. To relate to a very different composer, I think something similar is at the core of Brahms' music, this transience, only captured in a different way (more long-form, snapshots of a lifetime through many different moments – whereas perhaps Delius is capturing only one of these moments in a given work?–in some of his music, I feel like he is trying to capture or recreate a single memory.)

Anyway, I think the idea of capturing a single moment like this, in stillness, perhaps, is a very Modernist idea, and indeed something to come right out of its time and place. But I'm starting to think that Delius' music is greater than I thought. I shall have to spend a lot more time with it over the years, but for now, I'm glad that at least I do not hate it anymore 

I wonder why you say "artist, NOT composer". Could you spell it out for me?

Oh, and re: Mackerras, I will have to give him another shot.

Thanks again for the most enlightening words!

[Traverso]

Indeed excellent post,listening now to Koanga 

[Mirror Image]

I wonder why you say "artist, NOT composer". Could you spell it out for me?

Probably because he paints instead of 'composes' if you get my drift. I had a strong Delius phase many years ago and he was even my favorite composer at one point, but this was before I 'saw the light' so to speak and realized that he wasn't as endearing and musically inventive as Debussy (and so many others around this particular time). Karl Henning once said that "Delius was a poor man's Debussy". I soon realized that this criticism wasn't far-fetched. One of the problems with Delius' music for me, besides its general one mood atmosphere, is you can tell that the music wasn't carefully thought out and this is backed up by his avoidance of making notational tempi markings or giving the perform any kind of instruction on how he wanted the music to sound. In fact, there were no guidelines in any of Delius' music. Sir Thomas Beecham, an ardent champion of the composer, edited a lot of his manuscripts and added in a lot of technical information that Delius failed to put into the music, which I thought was interesting because now I'm hearing more of Beecham's ideas than the composer's own. The more I started reading about Delius, the more I started realizing what a poor composer he was. Also, he couldn't write a rhythm to save his life and me being a former percussionist finds this to be a fatal flaw in his music. It's just a lot of rhapsodizing and then 'poof!' the work is over. It took me quite some time to come down from the clouds to admit I was wrong about Delius, but nowadays, I'm more than happy to point out what I have a problem with and why I believe he's just not a good composer.

[vers la flamme]

Probably because he paints instead of 'composes' if you get my drift. I had a strong Delius phase many years ago and he was even my favorite composer at one point, but this was before I 'saw the light' so to speak and realized that he wasn't as endearing and musically inventive as Debussy (and so many others around this particular time). Karl Henning once said that "Delius was a poor man's Debussy". I soon realized that this criticism wasn't far-fetched. One of the problems with Delius' music for me, besides its general one mood atmosphere, is you can tell that the music wasn't carefully thought out and this is backed up by his avoidance of making notational tempi markings or giving the perform any kind of instruction on how he wanted the music to sound. In fact, there were no guidelines in any of Delius' music. Sir Thomas Beecham, an ardent champion of the composer, edited a lot of his manuscripts and added in a lot of technical information that Delius failed to put into the music. The more I started reading about Delius, the more I started realizing what a poor composer he was. Also, he couldn't write a rhythm to save his life and me being a former percussionist finds this to be a fatal flaw in his music. It's just a lot of rhapsodizing and then 'poof!' the work is over. It took me quite some time to come down from the clouds to admit I was wrong about Delius, but nowadays, I'm more than happy to point out what I have a problem with and why I believe he's just not a good composer.

Well, if you're comparing Delius to Debussy, of course you're not going to like his music. He's his own man from a completely different background. As far as all of the technical details you mention, those things don't bother me as long as the music sounds good. Admittedly, while it is sounding good to me now, I already admitted that I once found his music tedious and pointless, and perhaps I will return to that perception of him in the future. Until then, I am content to enjoy the sounds of his music regardless of any perceived shortcomings.

[Mirror Image]

Well, if you're comparing Delius to Debussy, of course you're not going to like his music. He's his own man from a completely different background. As far as all of the technical details you mention, those things don't bother me as long as the music sounds good. Admittedly, while it is sounding good to me now, I already admitted that I once found his music tedious and pointless, and perhaps I will return to that perception of him in the future. Until then, I am content to enjoy the sounds of his music regardless of any perceived shortcomings.

Well, that's good for you. I personally have figured out why I believe he's not a good composer and shared them with you. For better or for worse, this is my stance on his music. If you enjoy some of his music, then more power to you.