Frederick Delius

[cilgwyn]

I'm listening to the first cd of the mono recordings,now (Beecham Engish Music emi 6cds). They sound very clear to me. I have no problems with these transfers,personally. I can imagine Pearl would do something like this differently;but I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. No 'glassy',or muffled/boxy quality to this;although I haven't heard all three of the mono Delius cds,yet.
The transfers sound pretty good to me,anyway!

[Leo K.]

Ever heard someone say "you are too young to do this" or "your too old to do that". Now, if age is considered a factor used to separate old and young generation, in that case, I am between both generations; which gives me the privilege to witness and examine both sides to a limited extent. Although, written letters and meetings are now substituted with texting and emailing, things are not always what they seem. That's a debate many are facing now a days.  The younger generation brings questions, challenges and sparks change for the future. We are never too young or too old to do anything we really love or have passion for, no matter what that may be, as long as we are willing to handle the responsibilities that may come our way as a result.  Whereas the old generation sets limits and breaks, provides wisdom and experience. In relation to my knowledge, what I believe really justifies and individual to fit either or category is the way they communicate and contribute to the world. In fact, communication and contributions are the fastest ways to differentiate the two generations.

Been listening again to Sea Drift this morning, Beecham again. To begin, what a treat to listen to the marvelous setting that Delius composed for Whitman's eloquent poetry: "Out of the Cradle Endlessly Rocking." Sea Drift has perfect organic growth moving forward to its end, suggesting and underlining the moods and ideas of the poem with rare understanding and subtlety. The actual writing of the vocal parts is indeed masterly, for each is calculated with unerring judgment, so that one might say that Delius has "scored" for his vocal forces much in the same way as he has scored for the orchestra. And how the music projects its magic from beginning to end! In the music of Sea Drift an impressionistic technique is employed with beautiful and moving effect.

Philip Heseltine said, "It is impossible without quoting the whole poem to give an adequate impression of the wide range of its emotion and the way in which the passion of the words and music rises and falls with a perfection of poise and cadence that seems to echo the very sound of the sea itself, uniting the story and its setting in a single vision that grips the imagination with an almost uncanny tenacity. In this music we seem to hear the very quintessence of all the sorrow and unrest that man can feel because of love. It is the veritable drama of love and death, an image of the mystery of separation."

[Mirror Image]

Interesting points. Johan is probably more qualified to respond to them than me. Of course,Beecham was very wealthy & without his recordings it is possible that Delius might have dwindled away into the byways of musical history like Bantock,Scott & Holbrooke. You only have to think of all the recordings of Delius made during the first few decades of the last century. Without Beecham's efforts there wouldn't have been many recordings of Delius,let alone,major works like 'A Village Romeo & Juliet' or  the 'Mass Of Life'. Without these recordings & Beecham's advocacy the picture might well have been very different. In fact, I can't think of a similar case where a conductor has done so much in the way of promoting the cause of one single composer;although there may be others.
Having said that,there is no doubt in my mind that Delius's music has a universal appeal,range & depth which Bantock,Holbrooke & Scott,do not possess. Beecham,the man,has gone,but his recordings will live on & inspire a new generation of listeners and conductors.

Delius was writing interesting music long before he met Beecham. Delius already had an established style. What Beecham did, as the new documentary points out so eloquently, was he took the scores and made them 'orchestra friendly' so to speak, which was a tremendous undertaking and for this alone, I applaud his efforts because Delius was quite vague in what he wanted the orchestra to do in terms of tempi, note accents, and so on. But who carried the torch after Beecham's death? That would be Barbirolli. Regardless of what people say about him, I think he was a fine Delian and one that acted as a bridge to the younger generation conductors. Why must people continue to measure every Delius performance by what Beecham did? Why can't people listen to say an Andrew Davis performance without measuring it against that Beecham yardstick? I say it's high time we give credit to those conductors who knew conducting Delius' music wasn't going to win them any awards, but for the love of the music, they did it anyway. I admire this and this point is really where I'm getting at with my whole "Beecham argument."

[Mirror Image]

Well said, Leo and some good points you made there.

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Finished up A Village Romeo & Juliet (Davies/RPO) yet again. What a glorious work! Full of mesmerizing melodies, harmonies, and rhythms.

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Revisiting Koanga. Brilliant opera. Groves does wonders with this work.

[Leo K.]

John, it sounds like I'm missing a lot by not experiencing Delius' operas (yet). I will have to look into that! 

[Mirror Image]

John, it sounds like I'm missing a lot by not experiencing Delius' operas (yet). I will have to look into that! 

Delius' operas are fantastic, Leo! Checkout A Village Romeo & Juliet first. You can buy this opera very cheaply now that it's been reissued by EMI.

[Mirror Image]

I've been revisiting Koanga tonight, so in light of this here's yet another write-up:

Cecil Gray, who knew Delius well, accounted for his unique style as originating in "a kind of ecstatic revelation...The occasion was one summer night, when he was sitting out on the verandah of his house on his orange grove in Florida, and the sound came to him from the distance of the voices of the Negroes in the plantation, singing in chorus. It is the rapture of this moment that Delius is seeking to communicate in all his characteristic work...." The year was 1884: Delius was 22. Though the Negro influence was immediately palpable, most notably in the Florida Suite (1887), it would require a dozen or more years, the learning and un-learning of traditional technique, and the jostling of several other "revelations" -- Wagner, Grieg, the Norwegian alps, Nietzsche -- before their amalgamation in the mature works issuing around the turn of the century (e.g., A Village Romeo and Juliet [1900-1901]). On the way would come three ambitious operas. Irmelin (1890-1892) and The Magic Fountain (1893-1895), though they contain ravishing moments, are saddled with poor librettos and a yeasty musical mix. The same is true of Koanga, which took shape between 1895 and 1897, though the raw passion and eighteenth century Louisiana setting engaged his feelings in a more potent way. Based loosely on a two-chapter interlude, "The Story of Bras-Coupé" from George Washington Cable's novel The Grandissimes (1880), Delius composed with improvisational abandon. To his friend Jutta Bell, he wrote on February 25, 1896, "I send you today my libretto of Bras-Coupé -- I wrote the music and the words at the same time." Of the music he was more certain -- "I am getting all the Southern flavor...keeping the whole in the character of negro [sic] melody." Indeed, the score represents a piquant mix of Wagner and Black minstrelsy -- replete with banjo -- featuring an extended scene in Act Two based upon the Creole dance" La Calinda," from the Florida Suite. When Bell declined to doctor his haphazard libretto, Delius enlisted the help of Charles F. Keary, a numismatist and litterateur, without improving its stilted diction and labored dramaturgy. He completed the score in Bohemian Paris, in the company of Münch and Strindberg, among others, while making the acquaintance of Jelka Rosen, the young painter whom he would marry in 1903. Koanga received its premiere at Elberfeld on March 30, 1904, under Fritz Cassirer, achieving three performances. It was not revived until 1935 when Beecham presented it at Covent Garden.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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A few Delius innovations:

1. Used the first wordless chorus --- (1897's Koanga which predates Debussy's Nocturnes by two years)
2. Wrote the first African-American opera, Koanga (1887 -- predates Gershwin's Porgy & Bess by thirty something years)
3. Used blues and Negro spiritual music in a classical context (Florida Suite, 1887) for the first time.

[cilgwyn]

With a bit of luck I have now secured a s/h copy of the emi release of 'Fennimore & Gerda in "very good condition" for a reasonably low price!

I like your list of Delius 'innovations',MI! 'Koanga' really did 'knock me sideways'! I like Delius;but knowing his operas from only 'A Village Romeo & Juliet',I just didn't expect anything as innovative & ahead of it's time. Okay,there's no 'Sportin' Life' & 'hit tunes',but I remember listening to the recording while I was working (on cordless headphones) and every now and again thinking I was listening to Porgy & Bess,and then realising my mistake. What a marvellous opera & a wonderful performance.
Incidentally,I prefer a less operatic treatments of Porgy & Bess,myself!.My personal favorites are the Houston Grand Opera recording on RCA & the 1951 Lehman Engel recording on Sony. Okay,it's got cuts & it's a little un-pc,but it compensates with loads of atmosphere! Oh,and the 'Masterworks Heritage' edition is beautifully produced!

[Mirror Image]

Excellent, cilgwyn. I own the Richard Hickox recording on Chandos (excellent performance), but I own the Davies as well which I haven't heard yet. I'm about to remedy that! Koanga really is an outstanding opera.

[cilgwyn]

You've got to keep looking,haven't you? I don't want to pay too much to a seller. My nightmare is paying over the odds for a s/h copy of a cd & then finding it's being reissued next month!! I've only got the Handley Hassan to go,really;although I wouldn't mind the Beecham edition 'Mass of Life' for the old library! Having said that,I listened to Beecham's own recording of 'A Village Romeo & Juliet',the other day. The sound quality is quite amazing in the Beecham: English music,box set.Although,maybe they do go ott with the noise filtration (I prefer the Pearl approach!). That aside,I have to say,that is the first time I haven't really enjoyed this wonderful opera. The soloists are very much of their time & if they are really good I can usually handle that. But Beecham's soloists are a bit earthbound to say the least,imho,and it really doesn't help that the children sound older than me! Still,Beechams conductings is very committed & it IS undoubtedly an interesting document. Comparisons with the 1934 premiere performance of Howard Hansons 'The Merry Mount' on Naxos don't help. I like Hanson,but while A Village Romeo & Juliet is undoubtedly the finer opera;the Naxos 'Merry Mount' has the great Lawrence Tibbett in the cast. The kind of singer who could make the telephone book sound good! Therefore,my problem isn't really with the age of the Beecham recording,or the style of singing. I'm just not too crazy about the singers he used. I have the Pearl issue of the abridged 1924 recording of VW's 'Hugh the Drover' & while the sound quality is obviously inferior,the soloists are all very listenable. In fact,if you can stomach the limitations of pre-electrical recording technology,it is obviously a very passionate & committed performance,with top notch soloists & I enjoyed it very much. I only wish they had been allowed to record the entire score,or had the benefit of modern recording technology! They certainly deserved it! Conversely,Beechams recording of 'A Village Romeo & Juliet',enjoys the benefit of mono (! ) electrical recording,but the soloists sound old,worn & a bit wobbly!

Regarding the Meredith-Davies recording. I have listened to this now & while the Mackerras recording is undoubtedly a stellar performance;I do think that the earlier recording has the edge. The Mackerras performance is ravishingly beautiful & has superior sound quality;but the Meredith-Davies performance has more of that vital component,passion! And the 'dream' sequence with the organ & the church choir is quite stunning! It is superbly realised. Marvellous stuff!
As to Robert Tear. I have seen some moans about his singing (the old Penguin guide describes him as 'dry voiced'). Well,he sounded pretty good to me,that's all I can say! Maybe some of those grumpy old critics should invest in a bottle of ear drops?!!
To sum up; wonderful,vintage emi performance with a stellar cast. What more could a discerning,Delian want?!!!

[Mirror Image]

You've got to keep looking,haven't you? I don't want to pay too much to a seller. My nightmare is paying over the odds for a s/h copy of a cd & then finding it's being reissued next month!! I've only got the Handley Hassan to go,really;although I wouldn't mind the Beecham edition 'Mass of Life' for the old library! Having said that,I listened to Beecham's own recording of 'A Village Romeo & Juliet',the other day. The sound quality is quite amazing in the Beecham: English music,box set.Although,maybe they do go ott with the noise filtration (I prefer the Pearl approach!). That aside,I have to say,that is the first time I haven't really enjoyed this wonderful opera. The soloists are very much of their time & if they are really good I can usually handle that. But Beecham's soloists are a bit earthbound to say the least,imho,and it really doesn't help that the children sound older than me! Still,Beechams conductings is very committed & it IS undoubtedly an interesting document. Comparisons with the 1934 premiere performance of Howard Hansons 'The Merry Mount' on Naxos don't help. I like Hanson,but while A Village Romeo & Juliet is undoubtedly the finer opera;the Naxos 'Merry Mount' has the great Lawrence Tibbett in the cast. The kind of singer who could make the telephone book sound good! Therefore,my problem isn't really with the age of the Beecham recording,or the style of singing. I'm just not too crazy about the singers he used. I have the Pearl issue of the abridged 1924 recording of VW's 'Hugh the Drover' & while the sound quality is obviously inferior,the soloists are all very listenable. In fact,if you can stomach the limitations of pre-electrical recording technology,it is obviously a very passionate & committed performance,with top notch soloists & I enjoyed it very much. I only wish they had been allowed to record the entire score,or had the benefit of modern recording technology! They certainly deserved it! Conversely,Beechams recording of 'A Village Romeo & Juliet',enjoys the benefit of mono (! ) electrical recording,but the soloists sound old,worn & a bit wobbly!

Regarding the Meredith-Davies recording. I have listened to this now & while the Mackerras recording is undoubtedly a stellar performance;I do think that the earlier recording has the edge. The Mackerras performance is ravishingly beautiful & has superior sound quality;but the Meredith-Davies performance has more of that vital component,passion! And the 'dream' sequence with the organ & the church choir is quite stunning! It is superbly realised. Marvellous stuff!

As to Robert Tear. I have seen some moans about his singing (the old Penguin guide describes him as 'dry voiced'). Well,he sounded pretty good to me,that's all I can say! Maybe some of those grumpy old critics should invest in a bottle of ear drops?!!
To sum up; wonderful,vintage emi performance with a stellar cast. What more could a discerning,Delian want?!!!

Yes! Davies' A Village Romeo & Juliet is outstanding. It's so passionate and he paces everything perfectly. It makes me wish that he had conducted more of Delius' music because he was a natural. The Mackerras, as you said, is good performance, but there's an urgency in Davies that I find more appealing. All of the soloists were fine to my ears even Tear. It's quite alright if critics blast Tear, I could careless. I think he sounded good and he didn't distract in any way. It's only when a soloist distracts me from the music that I have a problem.

Let me know your impressions of Fennimore & Gerda once you listen to it. I think you'll enjoy it as well. It's Delius' last opera.

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Revisiting Handley's Hassan performance. What a fantastic work. I wished Mackerras or Hickox recorded the whole work like Handley did. It would be interesting to compare/contrast the performances. Handley's, in my estimate, is incredibly fine. Everything seems to be well-judged in regards to tempi and musical phrasing. The most well-known pieces from Hassan are the Serenade and the Interlude between Scenes 1 and 2.

[sheffmark]

Hi all!
I was thinking of branching out in my classical music composers, and i was wondering if Delius is a good composer to get into.
I've heard one or two bits of his and they were gorgeous.
Is his music easy to get into?
Are there any pieces i could try first?
I did see this on amazon and it looks great for the price but its a complete Boxset and i don't want to waste money if i only like a few pieces.
Here is what i was looking at.......


Any advice would be welcome!
Thanks all!

[Mirror Image]

Hi all!
I was thinking of branching out in my classical music composers, and i was wondering if Delius is a good composer to get into.
I've heard one or two bits of his and they were gorgeous.
Is his music easy to get into?
Are there any pieces i could try first?
I did see this on amazon and it looks great for the price but its a complete Boxset and i don't want to waste money if i only like a few pieces.
Here is what i was looking at.......


Any advice would be welcome!
Thanks all!

Welcome, sheffmark! Boy, I just don't know where to start with your questions as so many answers have popped into my head...

You liked Delius' music when you first listened to it, so this means that you're open and are available to receive it, which is a fantastic start let me add. Let me try answering your questions now:

Is his music easy to get into?

Not for me it wasn't, but it did take time to come to appreciate. One of the first things you have to when listening to Delius is shut your mind off of any negative opinions you heard about the composer, because, quite frankly, most of them are rubbish. A lot of the naysayers will say the music meanders and that the music is boring and this is certainly their right to express these opinions. I'm here to tell you that I don't find his music boring or meandering at all, in fact, his music is some of the most aurally mesmerizing and exciting I know. There are many moments in his music it becomes absolutely ecstatic with overjoy and enthusiasm. This music is full of life and passion. But, on the surface, it may appear there are roses, but there are thorns underneath the roses. There is always a haunting lyricism to the music. It pulls you in doesn't let go until the work subsides. The fact that you liked two works already tells me you are ready for his music, but bear in mind that his music is not 'easy listening.' It requires patience and understanding on the part of the listener. People say "Oh that's beautiful," but there's much more to the music than this of course. The complexity of his music comes from his completely individual approach to harmony. There is a good bit of chromaticism in the music, especially in the later works, but the way the music is presented and colored, the listener hardly notices this unique characteristic of the music.

Okay next question...

Are there any pieces i could try first?

Definitely give The Walk to the Paradise Garden, Brigg Fair, or On Hearing the First Cuckoo in Spring a listen. If you like these works, then try Florida Suite or North Country Sketches next. Once you get a feel of his treatment of the orchestra, then give some vocal/choral works a try like Songs of Farewell or Sea Drift. These will hopefully wet your appetite.

That 150th Anniversary Edition box set on EMI is an outstanding bargain and definitely worth acquiring, but my opinion may be a little biased.

Hope you enjoy the music!

[cilgwyn]

And,hopefully Fennimore & Gerda will drop through the letterbox this morning! 

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And,hopefully Fennimore & Gerda will drop through the letterbox this morning! 

You should enjoy it, cilgwyn. I wouldn't rate it as highly as Koanga or A Village Romeo & Juliet but I still feel it's an important work in his oeuvre. I listened to the Davies performance earlier and enjoyed it.

I hope Johan can give this newer listener some pointers in Delius as well. Would you like to respond to their questions too, cilgwyn? I feel a newcomer to Delius needs all the support we can give them!

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I also believe Daniel (Madaboutmahler) will be a Delian once he hears a lot of the performances from the 150th Anniversary Edition set which he will get for his birthday from his parents.