What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[FideLeo]

More mainstream style performance than the haunting Savall but probably on a par with Harnoncourt.  Live recording from Japan is clear and resonant.

[bhodges]

Just watched the broadcast (not all of Mahler I admit  ).  The Bartok... What a great piece

Great, wasn't it!  That was one of the most interesting Mahler Ninth's I've heard in years.  I agree with one friend who said how "modern" it sounded.  (And they took out Rattle's brief comment to the audience, asking for everyone to be quiet.  )

I only wish they had shown Dudamel doing the whole Concerto, but then they wouldn't have had time for excerpts from the Stravinsky, with the NYC school kids rehearsing and performing, which was also pretty inspiring.

--Bruce

[PerfectWagnerite]

Tonight on TV, on Great Performances: Simon Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic in Mahler's Ninth Symphony, and Gustavo Dudamel and the Simón Bolívar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela in Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra.

--Bruce

Damn I missed the Mahler !!!

I caught the Dudamel. It makes for good entertainment I guess. His podium antics wear on you after a while. Was he conducting or was he just pointlessly jabbing at the air with his baton. And how large was the orchestra??? Damn that orchestra must be larger than what Strauss used in Elektra. I guess it was a pretty good performance, I mean the orchestra is so big if they make any mistakes the rest of the section cover them up.

[bhodges]

Damn I missed the Mahler !!!

I caught the Dudamel. It makes for good entertainment I guess. His podium antics wear on you after a while. Was he conducting or was he just pointlessly jabbing at the air with his baton. And how large was the orchestra??? Damn that orchestra must be larger than what Strauss used in Elektra. I guess it was a pretty good performance, I mean the orchestra is so big if they make any mistakes the rest of the section cover them up.

They're showing it again at least twice in New York, so maybe where you are they'll do that, too? 

I'm fine with Dudamel's movement at the moment, since his enthusiasm is genuine (and close-ups exaggerate everything), and I think he's definitely the real thing.  (And remember, he's only 26.)  And yes, the orchestra was huge, around 200 players.  You should have heard them in the concert the previous day, when they did the Beethoven Fifth, also with the same number of musicians!

--Bruce

[Que]

More mainstream style performance than the haunting Savall but probably on a par with Harnoncourt.  Live recording from Japan is clear and resonant.

Interesting recording! 
I presume you're referring to Harnoncourt-II, which I found rather "big boned" but a fine performance nonetheless (wonderful soloists). Do you know the Bruno Weil?

Q

[FideLeo]

Do you know the Bruno Weil?

No...but I will when it can be purchased at £2.   

This is definitely more in the class of Harnoncourt II than the Weil which I presume has the sound palette of his Haydn.

[orbital]

Great, wasn't it!  That was one of the most interesting Mahler Ninth's I've heard in years.  I agree with one friend who said how "modern" it sounded.  (And they took out Rattle's brief comment to the audience, asking for everyone to be quiet.  )

I only wish they had shown Dudamel doing the whole Concerto, but then they wouldn't have had time for excerpts from the Stravinsky, with the NYC school kids rehearsing and performing, which was also pretty inspiring.

--Bruce

Yes, I thought they were going to include a surprise Rite in there  

As to Mahler, I watched the first movement only. I has some things to do at home. I did those so that I could be back for Bartok.

[M forever]

I'm fine with Dudamel's movement at the moment, since his enthusiasm is genuine (and close-ups exaggerate everything), and I think he's definitely the real thing.  (And remember, he's only 26.)

The real what thing? Conducting isn't really about podium antics and lookin' good, it is a very difficult craft which takes a lot of studies and many years of practice and experience to master. When is he going to learn all that? We have seen many overhyped young talents on the podium, hey all run out of substance sooner or later. Talent in itself is not a big factor, a lot of people have that and the talent to make coordinated, expressive gestures, but that has nothing to do with being a conductor. It can make people look like one though, and many mistake one thing for the other.

[Que]

No...but I will when it can be purchased at £2.   

This is definitely more in the class of Harnoncourt II than the Weil which I presume has the sound palette of his Haydn.

You're spot on - definitely a case of less-is-more. And a boys choir (Tölzer) for even more tranparency.
I would pay more than £2 for it! (Only if necessary, of course  )

Q

[bhodges]

Dudamel already has many years of study under his belt.  All I can say is, after seeing him conduct both his Venezuelan group and the New York Philharmonic, that his gestures are clear and obviously communicate to the musicians, that he appears to think deeply about what he's conducting, and that as a result he is very successful in a variety of repertoire.  At the moment, I don't feel he's being overhyped, but of course time will tell.

--Bruce

[ChamberNut]

This morning's listenings:

Bruckner - Symphony No. 6  (Jochum - Staatskapelle Dresden)

Mendelssohn - Piano Trio # 1 and # 2 (Gould Piano Trio, Naxos)

[SonicMan46]

Carulli, Ferdinando (1770-1841) Works for Guitar & Fortepiano w/ Massimo Palumbo on an original 1812 fortepiano & Leopoldo Saracino on an orginal 1820 guitar - another knockout bargain from Brilliant - an 8-CD box set!  Beautifully played & recorded - if you're into this combination of instruments & music from this period, this is hard to pass up for the price - complete listing of works and review on MusicWeb!  

[M forever]

Why? you ask. Well, you had the line Mengelberg-Van Beinum-Haitink, a Dutch Mahler tradition that I doubted could continue under Chailly. And when I saw him on tv in interviews, the way he talked and presented himself didn't impress me by any particular depth. Chailly is a good musician, though. At best, his enthusiasm carries you along.

Look at it this way: there isn't really much of a "Dutch Mahler tradition". There isn't much of a context there, just the "thin straight line" you described. A real living tradition however constantly revisits and reevaluates its elements - that doesn't mean they have to drastically change, otherwise there would be no tradition, but reevaluation is very important. That's why the BP wanted somebody like Abbado after Karajan (who, it is often forgotten today, had a very different approach to many things from his predecessor, too) instead of someone who would just do "business as usual", and that's why they chose Rattle then even though that may at this time not necessarily look like such a great choice. Time will tell. That's why Bernstein was so well liked in Vienna, because he stirred things up a bit and even though that is musically the most conservative place, they liked that. A similarly beneficial contribution was Sinopoli's in Dresden. He knew and respected the orchestra's traditions but was also able to reapproach them from his point of view.
I think Haitink wanted de Waart to succeed him and he took off in anger when Chailly was appointed, at least that's what I have heard. But I think that would really not have been such a good idea. Haitink himself was not someone who reevaluated anything, he just repeated what had been done before him, but on a very high level of craftsmanship. That in itself is very valuable, but where does that lead? To another repeater who operates on a much lower level? That is when tradition leads to stagnation and decline.
I think they exactly knew what they did when they chose Chailly, and I think they chose wisely. He had already left a noticeable impact on and proven himself in the music scene in Berlin with the RSO, so they knew he had substance anyway.
BTW, I personally would have preferred Chailly to Rattle in Berlin, but now they have him in Leipzig. I find it interesting what you say about the way he talks and presents himself in interviews because that is indeed rather funny, with his wild mix of several languages and the constant grinning, but I think what he says usually has substance and is pretty genuine, not some rehearsed statements.

[M forever]

Dudamel already has many years of study under his belt.  All I can say is, after seeing him conduct both his Venezuelan group and the New York Philharmonic, that his gestures are clear and obviously communicate to the musicians, that he appears to think deeply about what he's conducting, and that as a result he is very successful in a variety of repertoire. 

Successful in what way? In whipping up a little excitement while the orchestra autopilots through the pieces, with a few impulses from him here and there? "Technically", he does everything more or less "right", no doubt, but that's not what I was talking about when I said it takes good conductors a very long time to develop. Some other conductors take many years, sometimes decades before they tackle certain pieces, and that's not because they can't technically conduct them, but because they feel they need to gain a deeper understanding of the music before they can really "say" something about the music. Until then, they learn their craft in all its fine nuances, but not by jetting around the world posing in front of world class orchestras, but by learning and working steadily.

[M forever]

Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune (11'07)
& Nocturnes for Orchestra (23'33)
pure gold...

Those are really nice, very stylish and elegant, with a clear understanding of the French orchestral style, but with a darker and more velvety sound than traditional French orchestras, very attractive to listen to and well recorded. The same goes for Haitink's Ravel recordings, BTW.

[Harry]

Carulli, Ferdinando (1770-1841) Works for Guitar & Fortepiano w/ Massimo Palumbo on an original 1812 fortepiano & Leopoldo Saracino on an orginal 1820 guitar - another knockout bargain from Brilliant - an 8-CD box set!  Beautifully played & recorded - if you're into this combination of instruments & music from this period, this is hard to pass up for the price - complete listing of works and review on MusicWeb!  

Well I be ......
I posted that box a year or so ago, and told everyone how beautiful it was, but lo and behold, not a single reaction, so you can imagine that I am surprised you found it to be exactly as I said.
Like minds huh?

[rubio]

I haven't listened to many Mahler 9th's, and I think it takes it time to get to know this complex symphony. Barenboim's reading seems fairly straigthforward, balanced and with great attention to detail. The woodwind of the Staatskapelle Berlin sounds wonderful. I'm sure this reading will continue to grow on me!

[George]

I haven't listened to many Mahler 9th's, and I think it takes it time to get to know this complex symphony. Barenboim's reading seems fairly straigthforward, balanced and with great attention to detail. The woodwind of the Staatskapelle Dresden sounds wonderful. I'm sure this reading will continue to grow on me!

Danny looks pleased about that, rubio. 

[rubio]

Danny looks pleased about that, rubio. 

I guess he deserves to feel pleased .

[Que]

Carulli, Ferdinando (1770-1841) Works for Guitar & Fortepiano w/ Massimo Palumbo on an original 1812 fortepiano & Leopoldo Saracino on an orginal 1820 guitar - another knockout bargain from Brilliant - an 8-CD box set!  Beautifully played & recorded - if you're into this combination of instruments & music from this period, this is hard to pass up for the price - complete listing of works and review on MusicWeb!  

Well I be ......
I posted that box a year or so ago, and told everyone how beautiful it was, but lo and behold, not a single reaction, so you can imagine that I am surprised you found it to be exactly as I said.
Like minds huh?

Thank you both, this repertoire looks quite special - I'll check it out. 

Q