What were you listening to? (CLOSED)

[karlhenning]

What does "present" mean?

Meaning that where they are marked fortissimo in the score, you hear them playing fortissimo.  That never happened with von Karajan in (for one example) the Shostakovich Tenth.  Herbie (or his engineer) was apparently a brass-o-phobe.

[Scarpia]

Meaning that where they are marked fortissimo in the score, you hear them playing fortissimo.  That never happened with von Karajan in (for one example) the Shostakovich Tenth.  Herbie (or his engineer) was apparently a brass-o-phobe.

Now that remark I don't understand.   I've listened that recording recently and there is no shortage of loud brass playing, in my estimation.

[karlhenning]

Well, we shall listen together with a score sometime.

[Keemun]

Mendelssohn
Symphony 5 "Reformation"
Abbado
LSO

[Scarpia]

Well, we shall listen together with a score sometime.

Now in Mozart, Haydn, or Brahms I've found the brass too recessed in some Herbie recordings, but not that Shostakovich.  What passages are you referring to?  In the big climaxes in the middle of the first movement there is nothing reserved in the brass playing, to my ear.

[canninator]

Messiaen L'Ascension for organ with Jennifer Bate



Thursday, mid-afternoon. Maybe not the best time for this as I'm not feeling the vibe, not a fault with the recording.

[karlhenning]

Now that remark I don't understand.   I've listened that recording recently and there is no shortage of loud brass playing, in my estimation.

Well, we shall listen together with a score sometime.

Probably that is what the conductor and/or engineer thought.  There is enough loud brass in this piece, bah!  So here where the horns are marked fortissimo, let's keep them down to mezzo-forte . . . &c.

Ahah! We crossed.

Now in Mozart, Haydn, or Brahms I've found the brass too recessed in some Herbie recordings, but not that Shostakovich.  What passages are you referring to?  In the big climaxes in the middle of the first movement there is nothing reserved in the brass playing, to my ear.

I cannot cite details today;  last I heard that recording was in December of 2007 (I think it was).  I was a guest of a friend who was curious what I meant, too;  so we listened to the entire symphony in his living room, on a very impressive and eminently enjoyable sound system.  At three or four points, I remarked, "Guess which instrument(s) should now be playing fortissimo?"

[jhar26]

Another revisitation!



Prokofiev – The Complete Symphonies

I'm a bit disappointed with this set. It got some nice reviews - better than the Ozawa set actually, which is what motivated me to buy it. Maybe it depends a bit on what you're looking for but I find most interpretations rather brutal, short on lyricism and not witty enough. I nevertheless enjoy listening to it, but it could have been better.

[kishnevi]

Aus dem DG Karton:
Mahler
Das Klagende Lied
Chailly/RSO Berlin

Better than the Rattle recording used in the British (EMI) Box, but I could do without the boy soprano, so I still end up preferring the Thomas/SFO recording to this.

[karlhenning]

I'm a bit disappointed with this set. It got some nice reviews - better than the Ozawa set actually, which is what motivated me to buy it. Maybe it depends a bit on what you're looking for but I find most interpretations rather brutal, short on lyricism and not witty enough. I nevertheless enjoy listening to it, but it could have been better.

I can echo you . . . it gets many nice reviews, but I was aware mostly of disappointments in it back when I first owned it.  I've since re-purchased it, because I wanted to revisit it. I still have many cavils with it, but since I have other recordings which do Prokofiev's symphonies better justice, I can live with some of the Järvi disappointments here.  The Ozawa set I find much stronger.  I find it funny that in some of the review-o-sphere, opinion is so partisna between these two.  Järvi has a lot of emotional support out there!

[Harry]

I can echo you . . . it gets many nice reviews, but I was aware mostly of disappointments in it back when I first owned it.  I've since re-purchased it, because I wanted to revisit it. I still have many cavils with it, but since I have other recordings which do Prokofiev's symphonies better justice, I can live with some of the Järvi disappointments here.  The Ozawa set I find much stronger.  I find it funny that in some of the review-o-sphere, opinion is so partisna between these two.  Järvi has a lot of emotional support out there!

Well we have heard rather a lot of things that are supposedly not right about this set.  I think that the minor drawbacks are in no comparison with all the wonderful things Jarvi lets us hear. In the end its a matter of personal opinion, but I lean more towards Jarvi as Ozawa, being a very polite conductor, which is not what this music in my opinion needs.
I do not have the scores of the symphonies Karl, but if you could point out where the failings of the set are and in which symphony, I will do my best to get a matching score and hear for myself if these disappointments are really that devastating as you say they are.

[Mirror Image]

Prokofiev Seventh, Kitajenko




Sarge

That's a fine set that has gone overlooked by many. I enjoy Kitajenko's energy in this cycle.

[Harry]

Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina.

Ave Regina Caelorum.
Lamentationen zum Karsamstag.
Gloriosi principes terrae.
Missa in Duplicibus.

Maitrise de Garcons de Colmar, Arlette Stever.
Ensemble Gilles Binchois
Ensemble Cantus Figuratis der Schola Cantorum Basiliensis, Dominique Vellard.
CD 34.

So far the vocal recordings from this box are rather disappointing to me. Pro Antiqua, Deller, and now this CD. The Boys from Colmar sing loud and without any nuances let alone that they understand something of what they are actually singing. All other voices are drowned in this high pitched singing, and you have to pay a high toll in terms of what you hear not. There is no choir blend here, just dissonances,  this is definitively going to the Refusal bin. 

[Sergeant Rock]

The Classical, on repeat:




Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

That's a fine set that has gone overlooked by many. I enjoy Kitajenko's energy in this cycle.

Among the cycles I own, it has the finest sound quality too (to my ears).

Sarge

[karlhenning]

Well we have heard rather a lot of things that are supposedly not right about this set.  I think that the minor drawbacks are in no comparison with all the wonderful things Jarvi lets us hear. In the end its a matter of personal opinion, but I lean more towards Jarvi as Ozawa, being a very polite conductor, which is not what this music in my opinion needs.
I do not have the scores of the symphonies Karl, but if you could point out where the failings of the set are and in which symphony, I will do my best to get a matching score and hear for myself if these disappointments are really that devastating as you say they are.

Well, and if we allow it to be a matter of personal opinion, I find that Ozawa lets us hear many more wonderful things yet.  I agree, Harry, that there are merits overall in the Järvi set;  since I spoke of "many cavils," I do not propose to make a case for devastation in Järvi's accounts.  (FWIW, I find Järvi more consistently good in accompanying the piano concerti.)  I am a bit puzzled at people calling Ozawa polite in the Prokofiev symphonies (and your post is the second I've read that adjective applied to these symphonies today, Harry).  It seems to me simply that Järvi was overextended, churning out a ton of Prokofiev product at about the time of the Centenary;  and of course as it was an attractive and substantial contract with Chandos, once understands the temptation.  We should be happier with the recordings if he had taken a little more rehearsal time, I think; rehearsal time which was a luxury he did not have in that timetable.

I suppose I agree that since Ozawa took more care with his performances/recordings, that was polite of him towards the composer ; )

[Harry]

That's a fine set that has gone overlooked by many. I enjoy Kitajenko's energy in this cycle.

In that you are very much mistaken, this set was never overlooked and certainly not on GMG.
This is indeed a very good set, which I am playing right now too. Compared to Jarvi its in my opinion a little drained of a personal stance. Technically it is well played but it does not reach the emotional and raw power Jarvi brings to it.   

[karlhenning]

The Classical, on repeat:

I am really charmed by the grace of Ozawa's account of the Opus 25, Sarge.

[karlhenning]

That's a fine set that has gone overlooked by many. I enjoy Kitajenko's energy in this cycle.

In that you are very much mistaken, this set was never overlooked and certainly not on GMG.
This is indeed a very good set, which I am playing right now too. Compared to Jarvi its in my opinion a little drained of a personal stance. Technically it is well played but it does not reach the emotional and raw power Jarvi brings to it.   

A very interesting difference of opinion, gentlemen! One of you admires the energy, and the other finds emotion and power lacking.

I haven't heard his account of the symphonies, so I cannot comment.  I've got him accompanying the piano concerti (with Krainev the soloist);  and they are good enough, but not so outstanding as to compel me to fetch in the set of symphonies.

[Sergeant Rock]

A very interesting difference of opinion, gentlemen! One of you admires the energy, and the other finds emotion and power lacking.

Should I break the deadlock?   Comparing the first movement of the Classical, Järvi is the more powerful and energetic (if by energy we mean a faster pace). Kitajenko is more middle of the road and, I would guess, picks a tempo most people would find most comfortable and....right.

But my own favorite....by a mile...is Ozawa, who takes his time and revels in the beauty of the score (listen to how he handles the second subject! the very definition of charm and elegance).

I think I might safely project my observations of that one movement to include, and define, the entire cycles of those three gentlemen. Worth owning all three.

Sarge