Vernon Handley RIP

[M forever]

Well, that's already superior to your participation in this forum, Sean, for you only cover old ground in seldom interesting ways.

Hear, hear! A rare Karl in attack mode!

[drogulus]

    DL'ing the Bax symphonies now. It will take hours.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

    DL'ing the Bax symphonies now. It will take hours.

They're worth it.

[Sean]

Well, that's already superior to your participation in this forum, Sean, for you only cover old ground in seldom interesting ways.

All the greatest minds repeat and contradict themselves.

[karlhenning]

All the greatest minds repeat and contradict themselves.

Small minds do that, too.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

All the greatest minds repeat and contradict themselves.

Then there isn't much to choose between senility and greatness.

But more to the point, Sean - again: am I right in thinking that a lack of sensuality in Simpson's music is the reason for your dislike?

[Sean]

But more to the point, Sean - again: am I right in thinking that a lack of sensuality in Simpson's music is the reason for your dislike?

Yes indeed, of course. Great art need not be sensuous but it comes as a surprise that Handley bothered as much as he evidently did with the likes of Simpson when he left the Bax symphonies so late in life and he'd made such a success of other ravishing early century English music.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes indeed, of course.

You are consistent, then. 

[Dundonnell]

Yes indeed, of course. Great art need not be sensuous but it comes as a surprise that Handley bothered as much as he evidently did with the likes of Simpson when he left the Bax symphonies so late in life and he'd made such a success of other ravishing early century English music.

Recording particular pieces of music is not as straightforward as your comment implies A conductor cannot simply elect to record a complete cycle of-for example-the symphonies of Benjamin Frankel. Even if the conductor has himself studied the works involved and is committed to directing performances he has to interest a record company sufficiently to persuade it to invest the capital in a recording programme.

Before the emergence of a number of smaller but extremely enterprising record companies in the 80s the larger and wealthier companies showed comparatively little interest in committing themselves to complete sets of symphonies by lesser-known composers. In the UK Lyrita had performed a sterling role in promoting British music but even Lyrita could go no further than complete cycles of symphonies by William Alwyn and Sir Arnold Bax and the company fell silent for almost two decades.

Paradoxically, as the larger companies responded to the problems of the market by contracting their classical music recording schedules and catalogues the smaller companies became more and more active in promoting the music of these lesser-known composers. The obvious examples are companies like Chandos and Hyperion in Britain, CPO in Germany, BIS in Sweden, Marco Polo/Naxos. These companies-Naxos is now an obvious exception-do operate on a tight financial budget however and require to make careful decisions regarding what they can afford to record and release. CPO has the advantage of having access to the output of regional radio orchestras in Germany. For all kinds of complicated BBC regulations and restrictions this is not the situation in Britain.

In the circumstances the courage of companies like Chandos and Hyperion is remarkable and hugely to be applauded. When they issue complete sets they are taking a very considerable risk. It is a huge bonus if a composer can afford to subsidise the recordings himself as George Lloyd was able to do for the set of his symphonies on Albany. Often the companies have to seek support/sponsorship for a recording cycle. The Simpson cycle was sponsored by the Rex Foundation in the USA(started by members of The Grateful Dead!). The same foundation supported early recordings of music by Havergal Brian.
But getting individuals or organizations to sponsor and, equally importantly, to continue such sponsorship over a number of years is not easy! I know-from conversations with the Havergal Brian expert, Malcolm MacDonald, that trying to get a complete set of Brian's symphonies onto disc was unbelievably difficult(for all manner of reasons!), has not yet happened and, sadly, shows no signs of becoming any more immediately likely

Chandos had already issued its complete set of the Bax symphonies under the baton of Bryden Thomson in the 80s. There was no way that it could issue a second set under Handley until enough time had passed for the Thomson to be regarded as relatively 'exhausted'(I mean that in no spirit of disrespect to Thomson!). And Handley could not just whistle up an orchestra and an alternative record company!

The current Arnell cycle being issued by Dutton is another example. Originally Toccata planned the series. Naxos turned down the proposition of recording the symphonies but, at least, suggested an alternative company!

Oh, if only it was as easy as getting an interested conductor and an orchestra or orchestras.......

(Forgive the length of this post but it is a subject of importance and-at least to me -great interest)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Good piece, Colin.

You're absolutely right, of course. What a conductor wants to record isn't wholly his to decide. There are other factors. And no - I don't think that Brian cycle will be here, complete, very soon either...

[mahler10th]

Dundonnell:  Re: Vernon Handley RIP
Reply #68 on: Today at 14:43:42



Thak you very much for that.  It makes for interesting and informative reading, and a useful reference piece - so I have broken all copyright laws by printing it and putting it in my reference folder. 

[Dundonnell]

Just as a footnote...

I remember expressing some surprise to the then Managing Director of the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, Hugh Macdonald, that CPO had recorded the five symphonies of Humphrey Searle with that orchestra(under Alun Francis). He explained the complicated negotiation which had gone on to effect a collaboration with BBC Scotland but indicated that this was a relatively rare example of such involvement. Things are much better(more enlightened ) in continental Europe. The collaboration between the regional radio organizations and their orchestras with a company like CPO in making available broadcast music or in combining a radio broadcast with a recording session is much easier.

[Dundonnell]

Dundonnell:  Re: Vernon Handley RIP
Reply #68 on: Today at 14:43:42



Thak you very much for that.  It makes for interesting and informative reading, and a useful reference piece - so I have broken all copyright laws by printing it and putting it in my reference folder. 

Please understand that I am not nor ever have been 'an industry insider'. My observations are only as valid as many years of collecting records/cds have given me some insight into what goes on Someone better informed than I might wish to correct me if I have got it wrong

[Sean]

Recording particular pieces of music is not as straightforward as your comment implies A conductor cannot simply elect to record a complete cycle of-for example-the symphonies of Benjamin Frankel. Even if the conductor has himself studied the works involved and is committed to directing performances he has to interest a record company sufficiently to persuade it to invest the capital in a recording programme.

Before the emergence of a number of smaller but extremely enterprising record companies in the 80s the larger and wealthier companies showed comparatively little interest in committing themselves to complete sets of symphonies by lesser-known composers. In the UK Lyrita had performed a sterling role in promoting British music but even Lyrita could go no further than complete cycles of symphonies by William Alwyn and Sir Arnold Bax and the company fell silent for almost two decades.

Paradoxically, as the larger companies responded to the problems of the market by contracting their classical music recording schedules and catalogues the smaller companies became more and more active in promoting the music of these lesser-known composers. The obvious examples are companies like Chandos and Hyperion in Britain, CPO in Germany, BIS in Sweden, Marco Polo/Naxos. These companies-Naxos is now an obvious exception-do operate on a tight financial budget however and require to make careful decisions regarding what they can afford to record and release. CPO has the advantage of having access to the output of regional radio orchestras in Germany. For all kinds of complicated BBC regulations and restrictions this is not the situation in Britain.

In the circumstances the courage of companies like Chandos and Hyperion is remarkable and hugely to be applauded. When they issue complete sets they are taking a very considerable risk. It is a huge bonus if a composer can afford to subsidise the recordings himself as George Lloyd was able to do for the set of his symphonies on Albany. Often the companies have to seek support/sponsorship for a recording cycle. The Simpson cycle was sponsored by the Rex Foundation in the USA(started by members of The Grateful Dead!). The same foundation supported early recordings of music by Havergal Brian.
But getting individuals or organizations to sponsor and, equally importantly, to continue such sponsorship over a number of years is not easy! I know-from conversations with the Havergal Brian expert, Malcolm MacDonald, that trying to get a complete set of Brian's symphonies onto disc was unbelievably difficult(for all manner of reasons!), has not yet happened and, sadly, shows no signs of becoming any more immediately likely

Chandos had already issued its complete set of the Bax symphonies under the baton of Bryden Thomson in the 80s. There was no way that it could issue a second set under Handley until enough time had passed for the Thomson to be regarded as relatively 'exhausted'(I mean that in no spirit of disrespect to Thomson!). And Handley could not just whistle up an orchestra and an alternative record company!

The current Arnell cycle being issued by Dutton is another example. Originally Toccata planned the series. Naxos turned down the proposition of recording the symphonies but, at least, suggested an alternative company!

Oh, if only it was as easy as getting an interested conductor and an orchestra or orchestras.......

(Forgive the length of this post but it is a subject of importance and-at least to me -great interest)

Great post there Dundonnell- most informative. I bought the Thompson Bax cycle and tone poems in the late 80s and still favour them over the Handley actually, but the two approaches to the music are valuable. Handley is more obviously intoxicated and Dionysian but Thompson has real feeling for this repertory and often finds the heights of passion.

[Dundonnell]

"Thomson".....NOT "Thompson"....please

[vandermolen]

I enjoyed this article in the London Evening Standard:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-home/article-23556624-details/Where%C2%92s+the+next+Vernon+Handley/article.do

The Reader's View underneath the article is worth reading too.

[mahler10th]

I enjoyed this article in the London Evening Standard:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-home/article-23556624-details/Where%C2%92s+the+next+Vernon+Handley/article.do

The Reader's View underneath the article is worth reading too.

Very interesting.  A splenid precis of the strengths of one of the UK's finest, individual conductors.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I enjoyed this article in the London Evening Standard:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-home/article-23556624-details/Where%C2%92s+the+next+Vernon+Handley/article.do

The Reader's View underneath the article is worth reading too.

Good, but rather depressing, article. And a fine tribute.

[Dundonnell]

This is why we need to be encouraging the likes of Richard Hickox, Barry Wordsworth and Martyn Brabbins! These are conductors who have shown a willingness, nay enthusiasm to perform and record British music. Hickox and Wordsworth are now aged 60 yet neither has led a top-flight provincial orchestra let alone a London orchestra! (I am not counting Hickox's stint at the BBC National Orchestra of Wales). And now-as Lebrecht says-Hickox is principally engaged in conducting opera in Sydney.

Now I am not going to get into a comparison between Handley and Hickox as talented conductors! The sad fact is that Handley is dead. Hickox is the living conductor who has done most to promote the orchestral and-particularly-the choral works of VW and so many other British composers and record their music for Chandos. Long may that company persuade him to return to the recording studio

Brabbins is younger and has a lot more to learn but his Cyril Scott CDs for Chandos showed distinct promise in my opinion.

Nor should we forget the estimable David Lloyd-Jones who is doing wonderful work for Naxos at the moment in British music. Not a great conductor perhaps but eminently reliable and indeed distinguished recordings of the Bax and the Alwyn symphonies(I haven't heard his Stanford cycle).

It is not all doom and gloom(Lebrecht's stock in trade ) but I do despair at the obsession of orchestra managements in looking for young foreign conductors to lead British orchestras! Yes, they ARE usually good conductors(Jurowski at the LPO and Volkov, formerly with the BBC Scottish; Noseda at the BBC Philharmonic is more hit and miss in my judgment) and they have undoubted charisma which helps attract audiences but what about more home-grown talent??

[sound67]

This is why we need to be encouraging the likes of Richard Hickox, Barry Wordsworth and Martyn Brabbins!

Paul Daniel, too.

Thomas