Aesthetic pleasure of the other's destruction, the Crucifixion and The Devils

[knight66]

Yes MDL, your descriptions have indeed explained why this is such an important film. 

Mike

[karlhenning]

Did they remove the torturous cat-juggling flashbacks, too?

[MDL]

Yes MDL, your descriptions have indeed explained why this is such an important film. 

Mike

Sorry, I was trying to clear up some details with Sean about which version he'd posted and I apologise if my rather blunt descriptions offended some GMGers. If you read my reply to Bruce about the awards the film received, you may have a better understanding of why this is such an important film. The film is based on fact (the facts are far more violent and depraved than anything depicted in the film, by the way), as recounted in Aldous Huxley's intense historical analysis The Devils of Loudun (not Loudon) and John Whiting's play The Devils, which was highly acclaimed in its day, but has dropped off the map somewhat.
Ken Russell's film was condemned by right-wing religious bigots for blasphemy, but it portrays a character whose faith strengthens and redeems him. Russell, like Penderecki, was a devout Catholic when he tackled this subject.

[bhodges]

Bruce, if you've only seen the totally butchered US print of The Devils, you have not seen The Devils.

Alas, I've only seen that print, and everyone with whom I spoke who saw the restored version in 2004 just raved about it.  (Perhaps strangely, I haven't seen any plans to show it in New York.)  A magazine editor friend also shared your opinion of the film, and urged me to try to see it.

Anyway, I recall even the hacked version being excellent, and perhaps should reserve judgement; I was just ribbing Sean, since I think it would be extremely difficult to choose most any film as "the greatest ever made," given the hundreds of candidates.

Do you know if the restored Devils is available on DVD?

--Bruce

[drogulus]

     I wouldn't say the film is a masterpiece even though it's probably the most accomplished film Russell made. This is one of Reed's best films, too. He was a tremendous screen presence but didn't often find his way into films where he could really shine the way he did for Russell here (and in Women in Love). Ridley Scott wanted Reed for The Duellists but couldn't afford him. He finally got him for Gladiator where he was wonderful (one of his best, I think).

     

Do you know if the restored Devils is available on DVD?

--Bruce

     It is available, and it has a dreadful reputation for PQ, the worst since Blade Runner.

     There was supposed to be a 2008 remaster that would be the most complete ever and look great, too, but it was canceled.

[MDL]

Do you know if the restored Devils is available on DVD?

--Bruce

No, it isn't, and that is a huge scandal. The UK branch of Warner Bros have no problems with this film, but the parent company in the US hate it. I suppose we should be thankful that they sanctioned a release of the 1971 UK version on VHS back in 1997 (after only releasing the butchered US version on VHS before that). I think Warners US were on the verge of releasing a DVD of The Devils until the previously censored footage resurfaced to complicate issues in 2002. I met Ken Russell very briefly at a book signing in Bloomsbury and he seemed resigned to the fact that Warners won't be releasing a full version of his masterpiece for a long time, if ever. I doubt that Ken will live to see it. It's a disgrace.

[karlhenning]

Might have been different, if Richard Pryor had goofed on the movie in his stand-up act in the 70s, as he did on The Exorcist . . . .

[MDL]

There is a pirate DVD, which is the 1997 Warner release of the 1971 UK version, with a chopped-up version of the Rape of Christ sequence dropped in, in a different ratio. This is the version that has been posted on YouTube.

[bhodges]

I met Ken Russell very briefly at a book signing in Bloomsbury and he seemed resigned to the fact that Warners won't be releasing a full version of his masterpiece for a long time, if ever. I doubt that Ken will live to see it. It's a disgrace.

Well, I'd agree with you: that is a disgrace, especially since I would bet a restored DVD could possibly be very popular.  I mean, IIRC Altered States was a pretty big hit, and I didn't think it was nearly as ambitious as The Devils.  I'm not the hugest fan of everything Russell has done, but when he's "on" (as here) there is no one else like him. 

Great that you got to meet him and have a small chat, by the way--an experience to treasure.

--Bruce

[drogulus]

     The problem with the restored UK version, according to the critics, is that it essentially is the VHS version. And, so they say, looks like it.

     

Great that you got to meet him and have a small chat, by the way--an experience to treasure.

--Bruce

      I would love to talk to him, for many reasons: the films, the music, and especially the films about music. And why did he play Bax?

         

      Ken Russell as Arnold Bax        Glenda Jackson as Harriet Cohen

[MDL]

Well, I'd agree with you: that is a disgrace, especially since I would bet a restored DVD could possibly be very popular.  I mean, IIRC Altered States was a pretty big hit, and I didn't think it was nearly as ambitious as The Devils.  I'm not the hugest fan of everything Russell has done, but when he's "on" (as here) there is no one else like him. 

Great that you got to meet him and have a small chat, by the way--an experience to treasure.

--Bruce

Ken in person was utterly charming, extremely polite and even slightly reserved, nothing like the nutter he turns into whenever somebody points a TV camera in his direction! I've seen him twice at the NFT with critic Mark Kermode; the first time, obviously, at the premiere of the restored print of The Devils in 2004, and then at a screening of the wonderful Elgar, which I'd never seen before.

And I shouldn't be too harsh when judging the Americans' treatment of Russell - it appears that via Region 1 DVD (ie, the US), we're finally going to be able to see The Dance of the Seven Veils, Russell's bitter portrayal of R Strauss that has been effectively banned since its one and only broadcast on BBC TV in 1970 (the Strauss estate blocked any repeat of the soundtrack, burying the film). I'm not sure how they've got around the embargo, but I'm going to be ordering my copy of the Russell BBC films via Amazon US as soon as poss, just in case the Seven Veils is banned again.

[MDL]

     The problem with the restored UK version, according to the critics, is that it essentially is the VHS version. And, so they say, looks like it.

     
      I would love to talk to him, for many reasons: the films, the music, and especially the films about music. And why did he play Bax?

         

      Ken Russell as Arnold Bax        Glenda Jackson as Harriet Cohen

I haven't seen that film. Love Ken as I do, his acting skills are a bit, well... 

[drogulus]

     I liked him in The Russia House, but he seemed to be playing himself. So, he mostly sucks. 

     

[karlhenning]

Ouch!

(Probably deservedly, though.)

[MDL]

     The problem with the restored UK version, according to the critics, is that it essentially is the VHS version. And, so they say, looks like it.

     
     

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The 2004 restored version is a beautifully refurbished print of the entire UK 1971 cut with three minutes of previously censored footage added. The history of the film as I understand it is:

1) In 1970, a 114-minute rough cut was shown to Warner and the BBFC. Warner demanded that a 2.5-minute sequence called the Rape of Christ be removed before the film was officially submitted to the BBFC.

2) The BBFC removed 90 seconds of footage. The resultant 111-minute cut, released in July 1971, was the longest version of the film available (until 2004).

3) Warner US took the UK print, cut two minutes and re-edited a further two minutes (approx), replacing graphic footage with shots of crowds, flames, etc, completely butchering the film, but not enough to prevent US critics reacting with horror and distaste.

[drogulus]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The 2004 restored version is a beautifully refurbished print of the entire UK 1971 cut with three minutes of previously censored footage added.

     That's the DVD I'm talking about. Yes, it's restored, and it's 111 minutes long. And yes, it has a horrible rep for PQ. Read what the reviews say. A dissenter says it's not that bad, but qualifies this in a way that tells you it's not that good.

     The Devils (Special Uncut Restored Edition 1971)

     

     First Review:

     This is not a review of Ken Russell's brilliant film, but rather a look see at a rather strange and decrepid version of that film. Yes, for the most part, this is the UK uncensored version with all the frontal nudity and torture you might want to stomach. But beyond that--this is a print that seems to draw from many different sources. The film roller coasters all over the spectrum in terms of color, sound, screen ratio and related. At times it is close to the original in terms of screen ratio and color, but for the most part--it is simply dreadful. I admit that I ordered the film because there simply is no other dvd of the Devils in distribution. But be warned. All of the access options to chapters are completely screwed. My version of the film stuck in places that one could not believe. In fact not only did it stick, but it repeated itself. Never mind the so called "color." At times the film is close to sepia. But enuf. This is not the dvd of this film that you want, but for now it is the only one. You will have so many problems with this dvd that you might finally throw up your hands and say I GIVE IN. And press eject. And doom your memories of the Devils to the waste bin. What a dreadful shame. A perfectly great Russell film has been reduced to dreck. I originally saw the complete film at a WB screening in the US--so some sort of uncensored print does exist here. But of course you can chance it, and order this terrible dvd. Unfortunately what viewing this Inferior does--it simply diminishes the original and makes a viewer wary of ever wanting to chance another viewing in any dvd format. And that is the tragedy. It simply is not worth the cheap price to make this brilliant film a cheap memory.


     Second:

     Quality? Dreadful print - straight fron tape, but at least it does seem to be semi-complete, and [courage!!] 'someone' has been thoughtful to make a presenvation attempt.

     Third:
     Hard to believe this is an authorized DVD, as the quality is mediocre... not quite as bad as a tape-to-DVD transfer, but almost as poor. On the plus side, the film has been restored with scenes that were originally cut from the U.S. release; and they're as graphic as I remember reading about. There are also two very interesting documentaries about the film's censorship when it was released.

     Why didn't Warner Brothers release this?

     One more:

     This brilliant movie deserves a real release. Not this bootlegger's scam.

     The problem is not with the movie's print, as some other reviewers have implied. This "Restored" video has either been transferred from a low-resolution videotape or compressed at an absurdly low bitrate. All the pixellation, bad color and blurry focus are the kind you might get from a third-generation VHS tape transfer, mashed to hell with some free consumer dvd software. Practically unwatchable, and nothing at all to do with the original film source.

     The extras are interesting, but they look like crap, in keeping with the design and authoring of everything else. The documentary and pieces of chopped-up interviews were actually recorded off of TV (!) - you'll hear an announcer's voice over the end credits saying "Now, watch the film... next on Channel Four!" What a joke.

      This is supposed to be the only DVD of the film now available. Restored means the cut parts were added back. It doesn't mean the quality is high. It's evidently very bad.


      On a happier note, this is now available:

     

      Ken Russell at the BBC

     Before gaining worldwide fame for such daring and flamboyant films as The Music Lovers, Tommy, and Altered States, English director Ken Russell cut his teeth at the BBC, making groundbreaking documentaries that featured re-enactments, and setting new standards in filmmaking. This collection of Russell's early work -- including portraits of composers Sir Edward Elgar, Claude Debussy, and Frederick Delius, painters Henri Rousseau and Dante Gabriel Rossetti, and American dancer Isadora Duncan -- shows his love of all the fine arts and paves the way for a brilliant, if controversial, career that has spanned six decades.

[MDL]

     That's the DVD I'm talking about. Yes, it's restored, and it's 111 minutes long. And yes, it has a horrible rep for PQ. Read what the reviews say. A dissenter says it's not that bad, but qualifies this in a way that tells you it's not that good.

     

Sorry, I misunderstood you. By 2004 restored version, I meant the cinema version screened at the NFT in 2004, which was a pristine and gorgeous print copied to some supervideo format (not sure what, but it looked fab) for theatrical presentation. I wasn't referring to the pirate DVD, which was obviously copied from the 1997 VHS in somebody's bedroom.

OK, let me repeat it yet again. WB HAVE NEVER RELEASED THE DEVILS ON DVD. IF YOU HAVE THE DEVILS ON DVD, IT'S A PIRATE COPY COBBLED TOGETHER FROM OLD VHS RELEASES AND PIECES CULLED FROM BBC/CHANNEL 4 DOCUMENTARIES.

[knight66]

MDL, I was pulling your leg. A long time ago I went to a double bill of Altered States followed by The Devils. One would have been enough frankly. Two became an endurance test. Not in terms of there being anything wrong with the films, but the sheer bombardment of the senses involved in them both became overload. I recall walking back to my hotel feeling numb; having been hit over the head so often I was not feeling anything any more.

I do recall the Strauss film, as you would expect, it caused a fuss in the UK when it was shown. Rosenkavalier became an overtly lesbian affair. There was a female Nazi dominatrix. The structure seemed chaotic, though all these years later we are so accustomed to fast editing and a kaleidoscopic approach, it would probably seem more sedate. But he did adopt a bit of a silent-screen slapstick approach which basically jarred with the music. Unusual for him as matching music to visuals was his great gift.

Mike

[drogulus]

MDL, I was pulling your leg. A long time ago I went to a double bill of Altered States followed by The Devils. One would have been enough frankly. Two became an endurance test. Not in terms of there being anything wrong with the films, but the sheer bombardment of the senses involved in them both became overload. I recall walking back to my hotel feeling numb; having been hit over the head so often I was not feeling anything any more.

I do recall the Strauss film, as you would expect, it caused a fuss in the UK when it was shown. Rosenkavalier became an overtly lesbian affair. There was a female Nazi dominatrix. The structure seemed chaotic, though all these years later we are so accustomed to fast editing and a kaleidoscopic approach, it would probably seem more sedate. But he did adopt a bit of a silent-screen slapstick approach which basically jarred with the music. Unusual for him as matching music to visuals was his great gift.

Mike

     I wouldn't say unusual at all. Did you see the NAZI dominatrix in Mahler? There are different modes for the treatment of music, the deeply serious evocative mode and the fantastical Busby Berkeley on acid mode. I like both.

     That double feature does sound like too much of a good thing, though. 

     I would also consider the possibility that Russell is funny, which is also true of David Lynch. I tried to explain a funny bit in Twin Peaks to someone, where Agent Cooper is walking down a hallway talking about the case to the local cop and then he stops and says "Let me stop you in the hall here....". 

[Drasko]

    

      Ken Russell at the BBC

Dance of Seven Veils, the film on Richard Strauss has been pulled out of that box at the very last moment, though amazon product description still mentions it as a part of the box.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/34682/ken-russel-at-the-bbc/
(the third paragraph)