Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov(1844-1908)

[PerfectWagnerite]

I think Tchaikovsky said of RK that he thought he'd become one of the greatest composers or disappear without trace. However, he did neither becoming, instead, the most accomplished second-rater.
Not sure I agree. RK was my first favourite composer. I'd recommend the delightful Christmas Eve ballet, the Invisible City of Kitezh and the Antar Symphony as well as the Russian Easter Festival Overture, the incidental music to Mlada and Sadko and May Night.

I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:



I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.

[vandermolen]

I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:



I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.

Yes, Sheherazade, which I always have trouble spelling, was my first favourite classical work - my mother had a record of it. Like you I occasionally listen to it always with pleasure.

[mc ukrneal]

I think a  good collection of RK's works is here:



I don't think the music is BAD but certainly not first rate in terms of material or development. BIS even added to the title 'INCLUDING SHEHERAZADE" as if no one is going to buy it if that warhorse isn't included.

I know Sheherazade is over-recorded but every once in a while when I listen to it I am amazed as to its freshness and creativity as to as the wealth of materials.

It's a good set. Harry got me on to it and I was quite surprised at just how good it is. Symphonies are excellent.

[Spineur]

Is it me or are the rest of RK's output not as high in Standard was the few works he is famous for? I HAVE listened to most of his works and don't really find them nearly as interesting as Scheherazade, Capriccio Espanol or even the Russian Easter Overture.

For me the best of Rimsky can be found in his operas.
Snow Maiden, Kitezh, Sadko, Tsar bride, golden coquerel.
His most famous works sound too much to me as some film music for some holywood blockbuster, although in fact there were not used so much by the film industry.

[Cato]

For me the best of Rimsky can be found in his operas.
Snow Maiden, Kitezh, Sadko, Tsar Bride, Golden Coquerel.
His most famous works sound too much to me as some film music for some holywood blockbuster, although in fact there were not used so much by the film industry.

The Invisible City of Kitezh and the Maiden Fevroniya is beyond a masterpiece.  As with Taneyev's The Oresteia, Rachmaninov's The Miserly Knight,  Busoni's Doctor Faust, and Hindemith's Cardillac, it ought to be better known!

And is it not possible that certain movie composers imitated Rimsky-Korsakov, hence the impression?  0:)

[cilgwyn]

I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway! You could even say he was that sound. Others added their own imaginative slant later on,of course! As to Scheherazade? 1888! With that storyline and the movies that followed years later;it's hardly surprising that you immediately identify RK's famous score as sounding like a film score. Of course,if you'd heard it when it was first performed you would never have heard music like that before. I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here. He is regarded as one of the great masters of orchestration. His book,Principles of Orchestration,was long regarded as one of the most important text books on the subject;and is still cited by musical scholars. Indeed,Respighi,one of the great colourists,in terms of his dazzling orchestral mastery studied composition with him. However,Rimsky Korsakov is less skilful when it comes to structure. His attempts at Symphonies and concertos display this failing. It's interesting that the most successful and popular of all his symphonies is the only one with a program! Namely,Antar (No 2)! Although,according to the booklet included with the Jarvi set of the symphonies (DG),RK,himself,regarded it as a Symphonic Suite,not a symphony,anyway!
That said,I agree that I have found some of Rimsky Korsakov's other works,disappointing. Not Antar,though;which has long been a favourite of mine. I also enjoy listening to some of his operas. As to structure and whether RK had that vital sense of dramatic pacing that makes an opera worthy of being called one? Probably not? But his dazzling orchestration and his beautiful writing for voices more than make up for this. I recently collected the Melodiya reissues of Sadko and the sadly neglected,but very beautiful,The Tale of Tsar Saltan. I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.

[snyprrr]

Just listen to the damn music, for goodness' sake! I've heard The Firebird, and it's amazing. And I've heard Scheherazade, and it's amazing. Seriously, some people put way too many restrictions on their 'appreciation' of music, like you have to do things in a certain order. Just listen to it! No need to overcomplicate things.

You beast!

I listened to the 'Russian Easter Overture' last night... ok,... sounded just like Stravinsky, lol!! Actually, it sounded just like Janacek's BigTheme from 'The House of the Dead' and the Violin Concerto. I can see where IS wanted to "out perfume" NRK with FB, and he did it!

And, as far as "listening to the music" goes... I can usually duess "what" I'm going to hear, and if I can't, I'm usually disappointed. With me, the LESS music I hear, the better. (and I don't know why no one else subscribes to this... there's too much mediocrity and crap to just "listen listen listen"...

I'd rather a living person give me the "rundown". I already know RK is old fashioned with lots of standard issue- I'm just looking to see if there's any SuperOutrageouslyKaleidoscopic(?)... I'm certainly not going to wade through the Operas (just tell me what the best 15mins. is, lol)

From the RussianEasterOv, I can really hear where Stravinsky got his sound from... it's almost the same as the ending Firebird melody...

Again, sounded like late janacek...

[PerfectWagnerite]

You beast!

Again, sounded like late janacek...

You mean late Janacek sounded like RK.

[Turner]

Janacek´s style is much more abrupt and contains different patterns.

[Cato]

I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway!

He certainly had some help from Max Steiner, whose score for King Kong is usually considered the first "big symphonic" score for underlining the action (1932-1933).  Korngold's A Midsummer Night's Dream dates from 1935.

I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here.

So am I!  I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery!

I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.

Great news!  Thanks for the information!  0:)

[vandermolen]

I remember someone saying the same thing about Howard Hanson's Second Symphony. As someone pointed out;the 1930 score predates all the Hollywood movies one associates with that Hollywood sound. As does Korngold's Sinfonietta. So much of it,pure Hollywood. But,look at the date/s: Composed 1912, orchestrated and first performed 1913. Korngold more or less invented that sound,anyway! You could even say he was that sound. Others added their own imaginative slant later on,of course! As to Scheherazade? 1888! With that storyline and the movies that followed years later;it's hardly surprising that you immediately identify RK's famous score as sounding like a film score. Of course,if you'd heard it when it was first performed you would never have heard music like that before. I really am surprised at some of the criticism of Rimsky Korsakov that has been made here. He is regarded as one of the great masters of orchestration. His book,Principles of Orchestration,was long regarded as one of the most important text books on the subject;and is still cited by musical scholars. Indeed,Respighi,one of the great colourists,in terms of his dazzling orchestral mastery studied composition with him. However,Rimsky Korsakov is less skilful when it comes to structure. His attempts at Symphonies and concertos display this failing. It's interesting that the most successful and popular of all his symphonies is the only one with a program! Namely,Antar (No 2)! Although,according to the booklet included with the Jarvi set of the symphonies (DG),RK,himself,regarded it as a Symphonic Suite,not a symphony,anyway!
That said,I agree that I have found some of Rimsky Korsakov's other works,disappointing. Not Antar,though;which has long been a favourite of mine. I also enjoy listening to some of his operas. As to structure and whether RK had that vital sense of dramatic pacing that makes an opera worthy of being called one? Probably not? But his dazzling orchestration and his beautiful writing for voices more than make up for this. I recently collected the Melodiya reissues of Sadko and the sadly neglected,but very beautiful,The Tale of Tsar Saltan. I was therefore very pleased to see that Melodiya have now reissued their recording of The Golden Cockerel.

Interesting post. Respighi of course sounds a bit 'Hollywood' at times but he died in the 1930s. I'm sure works like The Pines of Rome and Church Windows influenced the likes of Miklos Rozsa etc.
My favourite RK collection:
[asin]B000004241[/asin]
One of my very first classical LPs (the shorter works).
I rate Ansermet very highly and I can't think of a better (or more inexpensive) introduction to RK. His most enjoyable works, excluding 'Antar' are here.

[cilgwyn]

Someone posted that Previn's recording of Korngold's Violin Concerto with Mutter made it sound like Star Wars! After reading that I just had to put it on! I was thinking,all I needed was one of those toy light sabres to conduct it with!! I actually quite like the Mutter/Previn hyper romantic treatment of the score;but it's not my favourite.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Interesting post. Respighi of course sounds a bit 'Hollywood' at times but he died in the 1930s. I'm sure works like The Pines of Rome and Church Windows influenced the likes of Miklos Rozsa etc.
My favourite RK collection:
[asin]B000004241[/asin]
One of my very first classical LPs (the shorter works).
I rate Ansermet very highly and I can't think of a better (or more inexpensive) introduction to RK. His most enjoyable works, excluding 'Antar' are here.

Regarding the Ansermet Scheherazade our old friend M Forever had this to say about the bassoon solo:
(when he said "it went out of favor" he meant the French bassoon, there is a previous post about it being replaced with the Heckel bassoon...)

It sounds great and has a very characteristic sound, so I think it's a shame it went out of favor even with some French players. Although they play the Heckel bassoon with reeds and in a way which sounds not too different from the basson sound. Still, one less specific local flavor in an already all-too-globalized world. It actually blends very well with the other woodwinds in French sections and it provides a very smooth, velvety color element which sounds great with lower strings. I first heard it a long time ago when the ONdF came to Berlin - at that time I hadn't been aware of that and they played a Berlioz overture (IIRC, Carneval romain) with a bassoon solo and it was a great (and interesting suprise) to hear that.

[Jo498]

Ansermet recorded "Antar" (which I prefer to Sheherazade) and it is available on a different disc/compilation. The sound was good in the late 1950s but it sounds somewhat dated by now.

[asin]B001CDLAXK[/asin] [asin]B00005UW3S[/asin]

[cilgwyn]

Indeed! But I was referring to the actual sound of Korngold's orchestration,not who got there first!. Taking his ambitious Sinfonietta for example;large parts of which sound as if they might have come straight out of a Hollywood blockbuster. The Scherzo sounds for all the world like an Errol Flynn swashbuckler. The second movement could be the music for one of those love scenes. Those big climaxes towards the end! As to needing lessons from Max Steiner. I don't think so?! Korgold was one of the most astonishing  examples of a child prodigy in history. Composers like Richard Strauss,Mahler and Puccini were in awe of his precocious talent! Furthermore,Max Steiner might have composed the first original film score of major importance,but his use of themes was regarded as simplistic and crude. It was Korngold who recognised the potential of the medium and took it to another level,creating the complex and often symphonically developed scoring that we identify with movies today. That's not to denigrate Steiner's achievement. Just watching King Kong and listening to that score,makes you realise how much influence it would have had on Korngold in composing his scores!
I don't think of King Kong when I'm listening to Rimsky Korsakov,though!!

[cilgwyn]

Yes,I I collected the Melodiya recordings of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (Melodiya) and Sadko (Catus Classics) and was a bit miffed to discover that I couldn't purchase a matching Soviet recording of The Golden Cockerel and lo and behold,Melodiya have come up trumps with a reissue. I haven't seen any reviews,but if it's as good as the others I will be happy! Yes,they are ancient old recordings,and the two I collected are in mono;but you get that authenticity and feel for a tradition,and the singing is truly wonderful. I just don't think it can be bettered!

I love Antar,and I will have to look for that recording,Jo498. I recently made a cd-r of Beecham's Antar,which he didn't record commercially,but can be bought as part of a 2cd (Great Conductors EMI);although it's probably been deleted! I thoroughly enjoyed Beecham's mono recording so I think I can handle the 'dated' sound!! The More Antar's in my collection,the merrier,I say!

vandermolen. You've got me again! I haven't got that Double Decca set!   I like Ansermet and I'm going to have to collect that,at some point!!

Talking about King Kong! Another film I like. The Most Dangerous Game. Filmed on the same sets,with much of the same crew,directors,Fay Wray and Max Steiner,as well!. The chase sequence is very exciting. Extraordinary for the time. (The 1935 She is quite good fun,and has it's moments,too! You can't beat the original novel,though!) NB: Son of King Kong's quite fun too;but obviously not on the same level as the original. One for fans of Cliffhanger serials,like me!!

[vandermolen]

Yes,I I collected the Melodiya recordings of The Tale of Tsar Saltan (Melodiya) and Sadko (Catus Classics) and was a bit miffed to discover that I couldn't purchase a matching Soviet recording of The Golden Cockerel and lo and behold,Melodiya have come up trumps with a reissue. I haven't seen any reviews,but if it's as good as the others I will be happy! Yes,they are ancient old recordings,and the two I collected are in mono;but you get that authenticity and feel for a tradition,and the singing is truly wonderful. I just don't think it can be bettered!

I love Antar,and I will have to look for that recording,Jo498. I recently made a cd-r of Beecham's Antar,which he didn't record commercially,but can be bought as part of a 2cd (Great Conductors EMI);although it's probably been deleted! I thoroughly enjoyed Beecham's mono recording so I think I can handle the 'dated' sound!! The More Antar's in my collection,the merrier,I say!

vandermolen. You've got me again! I haven't got that Double Decca set!   I like Ansermet and I'm going to have to collect that,at some point!!

Talking about King Kong! Another film I like. The Most Dangerous Game. Filmed on the same sets,with much of the same crew,directors,Fay Wray and Max Steiner,as well!. The chase sequence is very exciting. Extraordinary for the time. (The 1935 She is quite good fun,and has it's moments,too! You can't beat the original novel,though!) NB: Son of King Kong's quite fun too;but obviously not on the same level as the original. One for fans of Cliffhanger serials,like me!!

Yes, the one significant omission apart from Antar from that great Ansermet RK double CD set is The Invisible City of Kitezh. cilgwyn don't forget to post a photo of yourself conducting the Korngold VC with a toy light-sabre from Star Wars. 

[cilgwyn]

Actually,my favourite orchestral works by Rimsky Korsakov are: Antar,The Tale of Tsar Saltan-suite (and the famous Bumblebee,as well! ) and The Golden Cockerel-Suite. Can't believe I forgot the last two! Big favourites,of mine! And I like the Russian Easter Festival and the Capriccio Espagnol. The first three named are my all time favourites,though. I like Scheherazade;but for some reason I like Antar better;and I play it much more often. Why? I just think it's more subtle. It has a mysterious atmosphere that really appeals to me. Not that I don't like Scheherazade. I just find it's orientalism's more kitsch? The story behind Antar just appeals much more to me. I used to love folk tales,or fairy tales,if you like. I loved the Arabian Nights. I had a big fat edition of a slightly abridged version of the Richard Burton (not the actor,of course! Hard to imagine him doing that!! ) translation for a while. I remember being amused at all the very rude words that were missing in my childrens editions (Andrew Lang,possibly? He was a well known purveyor of re-tellings back then. Allot of his books are still in print,though). Wish I'd kept it!! Alas!! I agree that some of Rimsky Korsakov's other orchestral works are disappointing,though. Still,when you've run out of Rimsky Korsakov's best,there's always Liadov. This is my favourite collection,and the one I grew up with on a genuine Melodiya Lp.

 

That dark forest scene really captured my young imagination. I always loved woods!  The one on the right is the cd reissue. Nice;but I admit I prefer the former! It has that Russian fairytale atmosphere. Baba Yaga could be lurking somewhere in that forest! I used to prop it up in front of me while I listened!! Svetlanov's Melidoya Lp of Balakirev's First Symphony was another one. I didn't hear Tamara,unfortunately,until I was a bit older!

And if you want to take you're Russian escapism a stage further;there's always Gliere's mighty Ilya Murometz. This has always been my favourite recording. Again,it's the one I grew up with. Faberman's tempi capturing that feeling of the remote past and timelessness perfectly,imo! Let's hope this cd set isn't afflicted by the dreaded cd rot (Bronzing). Some of those Unicorn cd's were. My copies okay,so far!
And of course,there's always Borodin's Second. This Lp I blasted my family with as a youngster was conducted by Roberto Benzi!! (See right). Not exactly a well known conductor,I admit! The coupling was a decided plus! As far as I can make out this recording has never been reissued on cd;and I've never been able to find a recording on cd that I liked anywhere near as much!! He might not be a big name,but the performance had just that sense of technicolor spectacle and grandeur that sweeps you off your feet!

 

Oh,and I mustn't forget Kalinnikov;who deserves to be a bit better known than he is!

[vandermolen]

cilgwyn do you know this?
[asin]B00SSLUVP2[/asin]
I'm a great admirer of Liadov/Lyadov although his students Miaskovsky/Myaskovsky and Prokofiev didn't think much of him. Apparently he was incredibly indolent (which endears him to me) and hardly composed anything. However what he did compose is quite magical. I have the Melodiya CD and it is a shame that they didn't replicate the atmospheric woodland scene from the LP release. I love his Russian Folkongs and Fragment from the Apocalypse (pity he didn't write more of it) as well as the hauntingly beautiful 'The Enchanted Lake'.

[Florestan]

Oh,and I mustn't forget Kalinnikov;who deserves to be a bit better known than he is!

Amen!

I'm a great admirer of Liadov/Lyadov [...] what he did compose is quite magical.

Amen to that as well!



Magical, childlike (in the best sense of the word), fairytale-sque and absolutely charming.