Carlos Chavez (1899-1978)

Started by Sef, September 26, 2008, 10:27:47 AM

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snyprrr

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 01, 2010, 07:06:55 AM
I like this disc fine.

What do you like best, or wot not? I have to agree that I was really disappointed here. The 3rd SQ, from the '40s, has a nice smooth Hindemithian melancoly to it, but the other two do seem pretty Mendelssohnian in their agreeableness.

The late string trio, however, has grit aplenty.


karlhenning

Quote from: snyprrr on February 01, 2010, 07:32:46 AM
What do you like best, or wot not? I have to agree that I was really disappointed here. The 3rd SQ, from the '40s, has a nice smooth Hindemithian melancoly to it, but the other two do seem pretty Mendelssohnian in their agreeableness.

The late string trio, however, has grit aplenty.

Overall, I think this is music with a different profile, and with different aims, to those of the symphonies . . . and while I like the symphonies very much, I don't object to these differences.

The new erato

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 01, 2010, 07:06:55 AM
I like this disc fine.
The disc is nice, but the music on it didn't tickle my ear. Well, perhaps you've prompted me into a relisten.

Mirror Image

#43
Carlos Chavez was one of the first Latin American composers I got into along with Villa-Lobos and Ginastera (Revueltas came shortly later). I heard Chavez's "Sinfonia India" when I bought the Eduardo Mata Dorian box set titled "Latin America Alive," which collects all of his Latin recordings for Dorian. Anyway, I was taken by surprise by this symphony because it sounded nothing like anything I've heard before. As somebody said, it wasn't Romantic or even particuarly European. This all makes sense since the "India" in this symphony refers the the "Indians" that were native to Mexico before the Spanish settled. He studied the folk music of these native people and, of course, blended these folk melodies with more modern harmony and rhythm. It's a fantastic work. The second work I heard by Chavez was "Horse Power Suite," which is a ballet (also included in the Latin American Alive set). This is a thrilling work from start to finish and I have heard one other version since hearing the Mata and it was with Batiz, but I was much more impressed with Mata's conducting. I'm thrilled to see a thread dedicated to him as he truly deserves to be heard.

snyprrr

Anything new on the Chavez front?

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on August 07, 2013, 10:03:07 AM
Anything new on the Chavez front?

Aside from the Piano Concerto that appeared on the Cedille label, nothing much going on unfortunately. I really wish his craggy symphonies would get recorded again. Also, it would be nice for the ballets to be included in the set. I'm just full of fantasies today. :)

Mirror Image

I really hope that another aspiring conductor comes along and records all of the six symphonies. This would be a great project for BIS but they're too busy with mainstream repertoire these days. :-\ I believe Naxos should take up the Chavez mantle as well and record a whole orchestral series. But I know, I know I'm fantasizing yet again. :)

kyjo

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 09, 2013, 05:57:20 PM
I really hope that another aspiring conductor comes along and records all of the six symphonies. This would be a great project for BIS but they're too busy with mainstream repertoire these days. :-\ I believe Naxos should take up the Chavez mantle as well and record a whole orchestral series. But I know, I know I'm fantasizing yet again. :)

I'm with you, John. The only worthwhile thing BIS has been doing recently is the continuation of their invaluable Aho series. Other than that, they've gone sharply downhill as a label. Take a look at their newest releases and you'll see what I mean: http://bis.se/index.php

Mirror Image

Quote from: kyjo on September 09, 2013, 06:13:56 PM
I'm with you, John. The only worthwhile thing BIS has been doing recently is the continuation of their invaluable Aho series. Other than that, they've gone sharply downhill as a label. Take a look at their newest releases and you'll see what I mean: http://bis.se/index.php

Yes, I've been aware of their decline for some time, but I do agree their Aho recordings are the only things keeping me interested in the label at the moment. I wish a conductor like Gisele Ben-Dor would record a whole Chavez series. She did wonders with Ginastera, Villa-Lobos, and Revueltas.

vandermolen

I like Chavez's craggy 4th Symphony. Oddly enough it reminds me of Havergal Brian.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Quote from: kyjo on September 09, 2013, 06:13:56 PM
I'm with you, John. The only worthwhile thing BIS has been doing recently is the continuation of their invaluable Aho series. Other than that, they've gone sharply downhill as a label. Take a look at their newest releases and you'll see what I mean: http://bis.se/index.php
Wow! Handel's Water Music and Tchaikovsky's Sixth!! In-c-c-credible! :o
Wonderful as these pieces of music undoubtedly are,one can't help but think..............oh dear,they must be short of ideas! The poor dears!! And again,as has been pointed out elsewhere;what have these new versions got that would make me want to replace all time classics by world renowned conductors and ensembles?!! ??? :( Dvorak's Ninth is another one! If I had a pound for every review I've seen of a new recording of Dvorak's ninth symphony telling me that this is the version to have!! I love it,but.........!!! ??? :( >:(
Come on BIS.Pull your proverbial finger out and record a Hilding Rosenberg cycle,for goodness sake!! >:(

Chavez's Fourth sounds a bit like Havergal Brian?! Sounds interesting! :)

calyptorhynchus

These days I often get put on to a new composer by a thread here, however with Chavez it was that I bought the two disc LP set from Haydn House, listened to them and then came here to find out what people thought.

Like posters here I was very impressed, the symphonies were completely not what I expected them to sound like and I was thrilled by Chavez use of the symphony orchestra, his ability to conjure new sounds and timbres from the standard orchestra (I don't think he uses any exotic instruments other than some percussion). Each symphony is different and yet all of them have immense drive and cogency.

Did someone say that one of the symphonies sounded like Havergal Brian? Independently I thought this about the 2nd, which reminded me of HB's 6th (both depicting tragedies, Chavez Antigone, Brian Synge's Deirdre of the Sorrows).

Why don't we hear music like this more often on our classical music radio channels?
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

vandermolen

Yes, I made the HB connection comment - especially true I think in connection to Chavez's craggy 4thSymphony.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 07, 2013, 10:50:49 AM
Aside from the Piano Concerto that appeared on the Cedille label, nothing much going on unfortunately. I really wish his craggy symphonies would get recorded again. Also, it would be nice for the ballets to be included in the set. I'm just full of fantasies today. :)

Quote from: vandermolen on September 10, 2013, 12:38:51 PM
I like Chavez's craggy 4th Symphony. Oddly enough it reminds me of Havergal Brian.

I picked up the set (again) for $2 yesterday. And yes, those familiar turgid tones greeted me. Chavez here sounds a lot like Hindemith having Berg fainting spell- wow are they overheated Romantic hot house flowers! Especially the 'Neo Romantic' ones,3-6.

No.5, for String Orchestra, has the most annoying semitone waving I've heard outside of Minimalism. Aye- vandermolen- wtf?? He just does this trill thing, starting reeeally slower- back and forth- I'll have to listen again, but... anyhow, I still like the "old" air that these recordings smell of. They make me feel like I'm in 1958.

Is there a better recording of No.1?

Really, way back when, I was really surprised at the MOR sound of these later Symphonies- I can't figure out who No.6 reminds me of- but Chavez really seems like he wanted to be 'normal' and write like everyone else did. Malipiero? Bloch? Hindemith? Yes, there's plenty of crag and bluff here, all swept up in an overheated Romantic gushing that would sound maudlin if the wrong notes were used- Chavez barely uses the right ones, haha, skirting that fine line between  'mmm' and 'eh'.

Still, I just love the mustiness of this set- reminds me of the good old days of seeking out Classical.


That disc of the PC and VC- wow, it's really not very available.


The 8 disc Mata set is available for $11. Hmmm???

snyprrr

Looking into Chavez today, I see I may like the 'idea' of Chavez better than what I see on paper. To me, his reputation rests on being the Mexican Modernist, evidenced by the absurdist 'Energia', and some pretty wild settings from the '20s, not to mention writing such a perfect piece of popular music like the Symphony No.2 'India'.

But looking over the Works List, there's a LOT of Haydnesque Piano Music, and his Chamber Music for Strings exhibits scarcely a trace of interest to the Modern Listener. As much of a service as the 4 Volume Cycle of 'Complete Chamber Music' is, the actual quality of the music is considerably variable. Chavez wrote some interesting music under the titles 'Invencion' and 'Soli', but these are spread out in the above set, and the percussion music is first rate, but the best way to sample them is through that great Dorian disc of Chamber Music.

In a way, Chavez comes off a little better than the 'Mexican Roy Harris'- Chavez is surely more imaginative, but has so music 'normal' music as to make his interesting pieces quite a small number. But, when Chavez hits, he hits hard and with an unmistakable personality. It just seems as though the melodies he chooses naturally want to develop in the manner in which he does- there's certainly a fluidity to Chavez (though, some of that note spinning can get quite turgid at times on a par with 'ugly' Hindemith). The last 4 Symphonies do all have a very very similar soundscape, though, and one does wish that Chavez might break out of his normal pattern to return to the experimentations of the '20s.

His two concertos, for Piano and Violin, are massive Neo-Classical/Romantic monuments of over thirty minutes apiece, and exhibit a language that sound a lot like... well, a Mexican Hindemith- which, frankly, is what I like! I certainly like Chavez's PC more than Hindemith's, but... nevermind... The late Trombone Concerto, his very last work in 1977, is a darker beast and should be pursued by fans of Christian Lindberg.

There's also some smaller orchestral pieces sprinkled throughout Mata's traversal of Mexican Classical, but, ultimately, Revueltas takes honours here with  more interesting music. Where Chavez reigns is in the few Big Works that support his unique fusion-vision (which is quite powerful), and in his landmark percussion works, but should you venture farther you might be disappointed. There's no need to collect every work here. And even Ginastera's output is not enough to slake the thirst for Latin Romantique, so, enjoy what there is. (perhaps it is that a lot of Chavez fits so perfectly into the Hollywood stereotype?)

ESSENTIAL CHAVEZ:

1. Symphony 1"Antigone": very modal and "ancient" sounding, when played well this may be Chavez's single most evocative piece.

2. Symphony 2 "India": his 'Hit', and a fine single-mvmt piece of Epic. I still think MTT reigns here.

3. the Dorian disc of Chamber Music - maybe the single classic Chavez recital, a little bit of everything good. It actually makes good portions of the 'Complete' set obsolete on arrival.

4. Piano & Violin Concertos: both available in old performance, which are nice, but, we could use new recordings here (Naxos?) of these mighty works (Villa-Lobos never wrote a VC...).

5. Trombone Concerto: for those who want a good Final Work.

6. 'Exagonos & 'Ortos Exagonos'- vocal settings that are quite inventive.

7. 'Horsepower' Suite: Dorian- a nice ballet, on a great disc.



Frankly, the String Quartet Music- even the 2disc set of all String Chamber Music on the Southwest set- are really nothing all that interesting, reeeally, and the Piano Music is resolutely 'old fashioned music'- salon- which, DON'T GET ME WRONG- is totally charming if that's what you'd like- Mexican "Classical" Music- and yes, it has a 'Western' flavour you will probably like- but it WILL put you to sleep... no doubt!!!! haha

It would be nice if someone made a more intelligent Chamber Music recital to more complement the Dorian. By all means get the Southwest set if you must, and for completeists it's essential- but, much of it is available elsewhere and it's getting a bit expensive. At least wait.

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Symphony No.6 (1961)

This is Chavez's Big Work, and I suggest getting that VoxBox off the shelf and listening to the concluding Passacaglia. Any movement that starts off with a theme in the tuba can't be all bad, right? And, at over a quarter hour, - if Chavez had anything to say- there is ample time for some substantial idea development. I cannot help but to hear the influence of Hindemithian procedure, but with a more emotional core? Either way, something about this music being from 1961 gives me some cozy feelings about the 'End of the Romantic Age' and how this music represents the recent past (musically) rather than the future. It's quite rigorous, but very quaint at the same time- it really epitomizes a sort of naivete that was soon going to be obliterated forever,... The Last Romantic?

Mirror Image

#57
Quote from: snyprrr on June 26, 2014, 10:22:39 AM
Symphony No.6 (1961)

This is Chavez's Big Work, and I suggest getting that VoxBox off the shelf and listening to the concluding Passacaglia. Any movement that starts off with a theme in the tuba can't be all bad, right? And, at over a quarter hour, - if Chavez had anything to say- there is ample time for some substantial idea development. I cannot help but to hear the influence of Hindemithian procedure, but with a more emotional core? Either way, something about this music being from 1961 gives me some cozy feelings about the 'End of the Romantic Age' and how this music represents the recent past (musically) rather than the future. It's quite rigorous, but very quaint at the same time- it really epitomizes a sort of naivete that was soon going to be obliterated forever,... The Last Romantic?

I need to get my Vox set back out and give this symphony a spin. The symphonies that stick out in my memory are the 1st, 2nd, and the 4th. I really wish these symphonies would get recorded again. Where's John Neschling or Giselle Ben-Dor when you need them?

Edit: BTW, for better performances of Symphonies 1 & 4 then you need to turn to Enrique Batiz on ASV (later reissued in a set by Brilliant Classics titled Musica Mexicana) and for Sinfonia India (Symphony No. 2) I recommend Mata's performance on the Dorian label.


Mirror Image

Dear Record Labels,

WE WANT NEW PERFORMANCES OF CHAVEZ'S SYMPHONIES! NOW!!!!

Sincerely,



Seymour Butts