Donald Rosenberg Loses Post

[MishaK]

I do more than just care about classical music; I financially support it.

May I just observe then that it's somewhat unwise to stick your money into a business while simultaneously thrashing its biggest cheerleaders? Do you just really want to be the only guy in the concert hall? Are you prepared to pony up the entire production costs yourself?

[MishaK]

I know nothing of Mr. Rosenberg, except that he wasn't smart enough to keep his boss happy.  Presumably that boss wants to sell Newspapers.  And yes, that is a fair description of me.   

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

To paraphrase you: You seem to be under the impression that the constitution's guarantee of free speech means that you must have an onpinion on everything, and a strong one at that.

[scarpia]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
You seem to be under the impression that the constitution's guarantee of free speech means that you must have an onpinion on everything, and a strong one at that.

Why be dull?

[MishaK]

Why be dull?

You can be non-dull but concentrate on things you actually know something about, or at least do the research first. 

[Bulldog]

May I just observe then that it's somewhat unwise to stick your money into a business while simultaneously thrashing its biggest cheerleaders?

What thrashing?  I haven't said one negative word about Rosenberg's musical knowledge or reviews in the newspaper.  Have you given any thought to the idea that it might be refreshing for a new voice to report about the orchestra?

It might be unwise to stick my money into a small market business, but I don't do it to increase my net worth, only because I love the music.

I might apppear somewhat heartless and/or apathetic about all this.  Don't mean to be, but I can only see this through my experiences.  Here in Albuquerque, I receive in the mail each year a large booklet from the New Mexico Symphony Orchestra and the Los Alamos Chamber Society detailing their annual concerts.  That's great information to have, because it essentially tells me which concerts I might want to attend.  Whatever my preferences, the local music critic for the Albuquerque newspaper has nothing to do with my preferences or activities.

Question for you - Do you feel that concert attendance would slip considerably if a newspaper dropped its music critic coverage while still maintaining the advertising of concerts.  Put another way, can a newspaper music critic bring home the bacon?

[MishaK]

What thrashing?  I haven't said one negative word about Rosenberg's musical knowledge or reviews in the newspaper.  Have you given any thought to the idea that it might be refreshing for a new voice to report about the orchestra?

Sure, but at the expense of tanking one guy's career? I am all for a varierty of voices, but what the Plain Dealer did is replace one monopolist with another, except that the former was more independent and the new one more deferential.

I might apppear somewhat heartless and/or apathetic about all this.  Don't mean to be, but I can only see this through my experiences.  Here in Albuquerque, I receive in the mail each year a large booklet from the New Mexico Symphony Orchestra and the Los Alamos Chamber Society detailing their annual concerts.  That's great information to have, because it essentially tells me which concerts I might want to attend.  Whatever my preferences, the local music critic for the Albuquerque newspaper has nothing to do with my preferences or activities.

Question for you - Do you feel that concert attendance would slip considerably if a newspaper dropped its music critic coverage while still maintaining the advertising of concerts.  Put another way, can a newspaper music critic bring home the bacon?

Your extrapolation on the insignificance of music critics as evidenced from your personal experience is hasty generalization. You are not representative. You probably got on your local music groups' mailing list because you have previously bought tickets from them or are a supporter of some other organization that shares its mailing list with them. For others, who aren't on those mailing lists, seeing an article in a newspaper alerts them both to what is going on culturally in their town, while also giving them insight into whether these are events that are worth attending, and what their significance is nationally and internationally, whether visiting guest artists have something interesting to say or not, etc. If critics were unimportant, nobody would give a damn about Ebert and nobody would by the Zagat guide. The fact that movie distributors and restaurants, respectively, covet their reviews and accolades speaks to the importance of critics and reviews in both spreading the news of things going on in a community as well as helping to improve standards and quality levels.

[M forever]

Has anyone here actually read a relevant number of Rosenberg's reviews?

[Bulldog]

The fact that movie distributors and restaurants, respectively, covet their reviews and accolades speaks to the importance of critics and reviews in both spreading the news of things going on in a community as well as helping to improve standards and quality levels.

You have convinced me.  God bless newspaper music critics, and let's start a Rosenberg Fund.

[Lilas Pastia]

Acerbic criticism seems to be a musical journalism specialty, esp. among the older generation. Part of the reason may be that they have grown up listening to the "giants" of the podium. The younger breed of conductors is invariably found wanting when compared to their elders. But there should be  a point at which you stop whining about bygone 'golden age' standards and start listening with fresh ears.

As for journalists expressing an opinion about a fellow journalist's dismissal, it's as much a conflict of interest as being a press baron and orchestra board member. Take your pick. If the likes of David Hurwitz and Don Vroon didn't own their music critic business, I doubt they would have any voice in the musical press. It has nothing to do with journalistic independance and everything to do with biting the hand that feeds you. Tough, but that's life. I'm sure Mr. Rosenberg will find a good job somewhere else. There must be another newspaper in Cleveland.

FWIW, I yet have to hear a Welser-Möst performance I like. But I haven' listened to them all.

[Szykneij]

I read today that Rosenberg also loses his lawsuit:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/08/09/cleveland-orchestra-critic-despite-losing-lawsuit-feels-he-had/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl8|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2010%2F08%2F09%2Fcleveland-orchestra-critic-despite-losing-lawsuit-feels-he-had%2F

[Guido]

He's not great in Strauss either.

[Scarpia]

I'm glad the courts upheld the Newspaper right to assign its staff as it sees fit.

[karlhenning]

I'm glad the courts upheld the Newspaper right to assign its staff as it sees fit.

I am disappointed in his law-suit. Its frivolousness undercuts his cause.

[BMW]

I've seen Welser-Möst conduct a few times, and I have to say my impressions were pretty close to Rosenberg's.  Nothing technically wrong with what W-M does, and he's adept at getting from A to Z in an efficient and painless fashion.  But sometimes, in some music, that's not quite enough.  I recall particularly a Mahler 2 with the Cleveland Orchestra - or rather, I don't recall it, because it was entirely unmemorable in every way, despite having been played and sung superbly.  Even as it was going on, I remember, I was wondering why it was making so little impact, and it faded completely almost before the last note had died away.  Takes a particular skill to manage that while at the helm of one of the world's finest orchestras.

I have only heard him conduct Siegfried (live from Vienna) -- that was a few years back but I remember it being pretty darn good.  Will have to search for some of his Cleveland work to see if I can hear what Rosenberg was hearing.

[Sergeant Rock]

I have only heard him conduct Siegfried (live from Vienna) -- that was a few years back but I remember it being pretty darn good.  Will have to search for some of his Cleveland work to see if I can hear what Rosenberg was hearing.

There isn't much commerically available (a Beethoven Ninth, Bruckner Seventh, a Wagner program with the Wesendonck Leider) but I assume you'll be searching for radio broadcasts. I haven't heard enough W-M to make a definitive judgment but the two concerts I attended (Mahler 5 with the Cleveland; Haydn and Bruckner 7 with the LPO) were both sensational, his interpretations of both major symphonies very individual, gripping and convincing (the Cleveland in great form, as good as I've ever heard them...and my concert going days in Cleveland extend to the Szell era).

I love most of the W-M CDs I own, especially the Korngold Symphony, Schmidt Fourth and Das Buch mit Sieben Siegeln (both I'd rank with the best) and Bruckner Fifth. I do note that these are all Austrian composers. How he fairs in the broader repertoire...well, I just don't know.

Sarge

[MishaK]

I am disappointed in his law-suit. Its frivolousness undercuts his cause.

I would agree with this. While I'm sympathetic to his cause, I just don't see what valid legal claim he had. The "age discrimination" point in particular seems very silly indeed. I'm not sure what he honestly hoped to accomplish (or what that silly lawyer of his led him to believe he could achieve).

[A.C. Douglas]

I would agree with this. While I'm sympathetic to his cause, I just don't see what valid legal claim he had. The "age discrimination" point in particular seems very silly indeed. I'm not sure what he honestly hoped to accomplish (or what that silly lawyer of his led him to believe he could achieve).

Rosenberg's lawyer was either greedy or an idiot (or perhaps both). Rosenberg brought the suit not to win money damages, but to make a point.  (Even though Rosenberg was treated outrageously by both the newspaper and its editor, Susan Goldberg, there was really no solid legal peg on which to hang his case, and therefore money damages was a long shot right from the get-go.) His lawyer, however, handled the entire business like a rank trial-lawyer neophyte. I outlined the cardinal error in a brief post on S&F which can be read here.

ACD
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