Angst in Music

[greg]

Which music has the most angst, and centers around it? What about music with:

lots of angst
contemplativeness
transcendence
world-weariness "Weltschmerz"
lack of refinement, self-control, completely indulgent
grandiose
makes you want to zone out and daydream
complexity
nostalgic longing?


(even non-classical suggestions are welcome).

Thanks.

[Josquin des Prez]

What about music with lots of angst, plus contemplativeness, transcendence, world-weariness "Weltschmerz", and nostalgic longing?

Beethoven?

[mn dave]

Beethoven?

Got it in one.

[greg]

Beethoven?

what by Beethoven? 
i don't hear any of that at all.

[mn dave]

what by Beethoven? 
i don't hear any of that at all.

      

[imperfection]

what by Beethoven? 
i don't hear any of that at all.

[greg]

Well, he doesn't exaggerate it quite like other composers do, but that's okay, because given the time period in which he worked, you could only go so far. There's a reason why no one wrote the Rite of Spring back then. I want complete lack of restraint as well......

[Philoctetes]

Schubert, he seems like he would be a whiner.

[greg]

Schubert, he seems like he would be a whiner.

The Unfinished Symphony is a favorite! 


Anything new, though, that I haven't heard? A new composer? There has to be someone I'm overlooking......

[(poco) Sforzando]

The Unfinished Symphony is a favorite! 


Anything new, though, that I haven't heard? A new composer? There has to be someone I'm overlooking......

Problem is, you're asking for several attributes that don't necessarily tie together. Angst and transcendence, complete lack of restraint and world-weariness all at once? At different parts of a composition, sure, and the obvious example is Mahler. But you knew that already.

[greg]

Problem is, you're asking for several attributes that don't necessarily tie together. Angst and transcendence, complete lack of restraint and world-weariness all at once? At different parts of a composition, sure, and the obvious example is Mahler. But you knew that already.

You guessed it! 
But, really, is there anything else by other composers close to that? Probably 20th century or any contemporary composers that I may have overlooked......
The closest thing I've found is Gorecki's 3rd Symphony, although there's not much angst. World-weariness and transcendence could nearly describe the whole symphony..... i haven't heard anything else yet by him that equals the impact of that symphony. (i've heard this mentioned in two other places, somewhere on the internet, btw, so i'm not the only one who sees a resemblance)

What about in popular music? Anything underground?

[Josquin des Prez]

what by Beethoven? 

I don't know, his entire late period? Did that rock offer proper lodging? 

Well, he doesn't exaggerate it quite like other composers do

I don't recall you ever mentioning exaggeration or excess, merely, that the adjectives you listed be present. And they are.

There's a reason why no one wrote the Rite of Spring back then.

It was Stravinsky who referred to the Grosse Fugue as "eternally modern". Not that i necessarily agree with him. I dislike modernity with all my being, and i think Beethoven was much better then that, but i can see why most people consider his late works to be the first breakthrough in the development of modern art (as erroneous that interpretation may be. Modern art is a distortion of what Beethoven and his self proclaimed followers were attempting to do).

Seriously Greg, you need to get over the whole modernist zealotry. There's much more to art then perversion and decadence. 

[greg]

I don't know, his entire late period? Did that rock offer proper lodging? 

I don't recall you ever mentioning exaggeration or excess, merely, that the adjectives you listed be present. And they are.

It was Stravinsky who referred to the Grosse Fugue as "eternally modern". Not that i necessarily agree with him. I dislike modernity with all my being, and i think Beethoven was much better then that, but i can see why most people consider his late works to be the first breakthrough in the development of modern art (as erroneous that interpretation may be. Modern art is a distortion of what Beethoven and his self proclaimed followers were attempting to do).

Seriously Greg, you need to get over the whole modernist zealotry. There's much more to art then perversion and decadence. 

I updated my list, so it's more specific.
I've listened to the Grosse Fugue twice- the first time I liked it, the second time, those repeating rhythms just got to me and started annoying the heck out of me.
The 9th Symphony I've also listened to two or three time, and it did nothing but bore me, painfully.
Once you have a bad experience with a composer, it's hard to get yourself to repeat what may be another bad experience. (not to say i'd give give up on him)
I don't get hte last part of the post. What was he attempting to do?

[(poco) Sforzando]

There's much more to art then perversion and decadence. 

There is?

[Brian]

You've been listening to the wrong Beethoven. The Ninth is long and architecturally less concise than the Fifth, for one thing. For most of the attributes on your list, I would seek out some of his piano sonatas, especially the last three. I would also look up the Sibelius Seventh, if you haven't already, along with several other of his symphonies, and the Brahms Symphonies Nos 3 and 4, and also J.W. Kalliwoda's Fifth Symphony (CPO album, with Das Neue Orchester and conductor Christoph Spering), which is like Schubert except with genuine tragedy afoot. Langgaard's late works. Rachmaninov.

Oh ... and Wagner.

[greg]

You've been listening to the wrong Beethoven. The Ninth is long and architecturally less concise than the Fifth, for one thing. For most of the attributes on your list, I would seek out some of his piano sonatas, especially the last three. I would also look up the Sibelius Seventh, if you haven't already, along with several other of his symphonies, and the Brahms Symphonies Nos 3 and 4, and also J.W. Kalliwoda's Fifth Symphony (CPO album, with Das Neue Orchester and conductor Christoph Spering), which is like Schubert except with genuine tragedy afoot. Langgaard's late works. Rachmaninov.

Oh ... and Wagner.

Good recommendations, thanks.
Beethoven's last 3 sonatas- i'll check those out.
Sibelius 7th- listened t oonce, didn't like it. I'll try again.
Brahms 3 and 4- some of my favorite symphnoies, for a long time now 
J.W. Kalliwoda's Fifth Symphony- ooh, this one sounds new.
Laangard- i've heard a little of him which i liked, but i don't think it was anything late......
Rachmaninov- hmmmmmmm i do see a bit of that in him, but to me he's somewhat refined and doesn't have the huge "punch" in his music- it laments, but doesn't die.

[M forever]

"Weltschmerz" can not be translated as "world-weariness".

[greg]

"Weltschmerz" can not be translated as "world-weariness".

then wikipedia must be wrong. What is a better translation?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weltschmerz

[M forever]

No, Wikipedia is always right. I must be wrong then.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Getting back to the OP, Wagner is the composer that first comes to my mind.