John Cage (1912-92)

[torut]

In the wake of the discussion about 4'33" that occurred on a different thread, I recommend this book:  No Such Thing as Silence: John Cage's 4'33" by Kyle Gann.

I am just beginning it, but Gann is somewhat of a Cage scholar and has performed the work and is a good writer about music.

That is a very good book, covering many aspects of the work, without overstating or being hyperbole. The book discusses several influences, mainly on 4'33", but also on Cage's other works.

I don't think Cage was interested in extremely long duration itself. He regarded time length is the most fundamental factor of music, but I don't know if he had any interest in alternating audience's mind by playing very long.

"In the field of structure, the field of definition of parts and their relation to a whole, there has been only one new idea since Beethoven. And that new idea can be perceived in the work of Anton Webern and Erick Satie. With Beethoven the parts of a composition were defined by means of harmony. With Satie and Webern they were defined by means of time lengths. [...] of the four characteristics of the material of music, duration, that is time length, is the most fundamental. Silence cannot be heard in terms of pitch or harmony: it is heard in terms of time length." (Cage, "Defense of Satie")

To me, Cage's music sounds very sober, opposite of hypnotic or meditative music. He studied Zen but didn't practice meditation.

As for Feldman, it seems rather that Feldman influenced Cage more than Cage influenced him. Gann says that the idea of giving up the control of pitches by the composer in Feldman's Projections and Intersections might have been inspiration for 4'33". And, around the time of Feldman's death (1987), Cage started composing number pieces, which are mostly slow and less dynamic, similar to Feldman's pieces. But the length is not so long, usually 20~40 min.

[Mandryka]

. He studied Zen but didn't practice meditation.

How extraordinary. Why didn't he meditate?

[torut]

How extraordinary. Why didn't he meditate?

It was surprising to me when I learned it.

"I then decided not to give up the writing of music and discipline my ego by sitting cross-legged but to find a means of writing music as strict with respect to my ego as sitting cross-legged...."

https://books.google.com/books?id=8yy8iC-VCQIC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138#v=onepage&q&f=false

[San Antone]

That is a very good book, covering many aspects of the work, without overstating or being hyperbole. The book discusses several influences, mainly on 4'33", but also on Cage's other works.

I don't think Cage was interested in extremely long duration itself. He regarded time length is the most fundamental factor of music, but I don't know if he had any interest in alternating audience's mind by playing very long.

I would agree, with the caveat that Cage did write some long works and was not against using long duration as a compositional element.

To me, Cage's music sounds very sober, opposite of hypnotic or meditative music. He studied Zen but didn't practice meditation.

Cage's writings from around the mid-century reflect Zen in various ways and to varying degrees. He retained those elements of Indian philosophy that still resonated with his aesthetic – for instance, although Zen could not acknowledge any notions of duality, Cage continued to hold the view (gained from Gita Sarabhai) that art should sober and quiet the mind, thus rendering it susceptible to divine influences.

He may not have meditated but wanted his music to accomplish a similar goal.

As for Feldman, it seems rather that Feldman influenced Cage more than Cage influenced him. Gann says that the idea of giving up the control of pitches by the composer in Feldman's Projections and Intersections might have been inspiration for 4'33". And, around the time of Feldman's death (1987), Cage started composing number pieces, which are mostly slow and less dynamic, similar to Feldman's pieces. But the length is not so long, usually 20~40 min.

Cage worked on 4'33" for four and a half years (how appropriate!) - and I am sure there were a variety of things that contributed to the work.  However, as far as I know, he has not mentioned this work of Feldman's.  I have seen where he credited the Rauschenberg white paintings.

[San Antone]

Cage's involvement with Zen is much deeper than simply whether he meditated or not.  For example, Zen enlightenment does not come from ignoring everyday phenomena, i.e. by not thinking, feeling, eating or by sitting and meditating – but rather by engaging in everyday activities without any feelings of attachment or revulsion.

Thus Cage would rely on chance operations to dictate the music, and accept the results without editing the music if he thought he might improve the outcome. 

His attitude to meditation is captured in this quote from Haskins's book:

Thus enlightenment comes suddenly and completely; it has the sensation of an afterthought: good works do not hasten its arrival and neither does meditation or assiduous study of venerated texts. These activities have their place, but they are no more means to an end than breathing or brushing your teeth; they are simply what you do. In that important sense, then, there is nothing magical about enlightenment, and that in turn demonstrates how Zen runs counter to the quasi-mystical, fantastic sense of art that Cage appropriated, for instance, from the writings of the medieval Christian mystic Meister Eckhart. From this point onward, Cage's aesthetic would be permeated by a delight in the everyday, the non-fetishizing of objects and the celebration of activity as the most important creative act of all.

This is one of the reasons why he considered everyday natural sounds as important as traditionally composed music.

[torut]

I would agree, with the caveat that Cage did write some long works and was not against using long duration as a compositional element.

I don't know of extraordinarily long works by Cage like Feldman's SQ No.2. The etudes are long, but they are collections of short etude.

Cage's writings from around the mid-century reflect Zen in various ways and to varying degrees. He retained those elements of Indian philosophy that still resonated with his aesthetic – for instance, although Zen could not acknowledge any notions of duality, Cage continued to hold the view (gained from Gita Sarabhai) that art should sober and quiet the mind, thus rendering it susceptible to divine influences.

He may not have meditated but wanted his music to accomplish a similar goal.

Sobering and quieting the mind - that's what I feel when I hear Cage's music and what I love about his works.

Cage worked on 4'33" for four and a half years (how appropriate!) - and I am sure there were a variety of things that contributed to the work.  However, as far as I know, he has not mentioned this work of Feldman's.  I have seen where he credited the Rauschenberg white paintings.

My post was incorrect. Gann wrote "Feldman can't be credited with having had much impact on this particular piece," but "one could imagine that this acceptance of sounds [Feldman's graph score that does not specify the pitches] played some role in the move toward 4'33"."

[San Antone]

I don't know of extraordinarily long works by Cage like Feldman's SQ No.2. The etudes are long, but they are collections of short etude.

The best example would be Organ²/ASLSP (As Slow as Possible) (and not the Halberstadt version, which I think is bunk).

On February 5, 2009, Diane Luchese performed "Organ²/ASLSP" from 8:45 a.m. to 11:41 p.m. in the Harold J. Kaplan Concert Hall at Towson University. This 14-hour-and-56-minute performance, in strict adherence to the score's temporal proportions, is the longest documented performance of the piece by a single person so far, although a full 24-hour performance of the original piece, ASLSP, was given by Joe Drew during the ARTSaha! festival in 2008. Drew has also given 9- and 12-hour performances of the piece, and is planning a 48-hour performance.

On September 5, 2012, as part of John Cage Day at the University of Adelaide, Australia, Stephen Whittington performed an 8-hour version of ASLSP on the Elder Hall organ. The eight sections of the work were each allocated an hour, with each section divided into segments of one minute, within which the precise timing of events was left open. In performance, seven sections were played, with one omitted and one repeated. Organ registrations were determined by chance procedures.

A 12-hour performance took place on September 4–5, 2015, in an all-night concert at Christ Church Cathedral in Montréal, Québec. The work was performed by the Cathedral organists, Patrick Wedd, Adrian Foster, and Alex Ross, while other Cage compositions were performed simultaneously in the church. The performers used a stopwatch, and the timing of each note was precisely calculated and written into the score.

[Mandryka]

The best example would be Organ²/ASLSP (As Slow as Possible) (and not the Halberstadt version, which I think is bunk).

On February 5, 2009, Diane Luchese performed "Organ²/ASLSP" from 8:45 a.m. to 11:41 p.m. in the Harold J. Kaplan Concert Hall at Towson University. This 14-hour-and-56-minute performance, in strict adherence to the score's temporal proportions, is the longest documented performance of the piece by a single person so far, although a full 24-hour performance of the original piece, ASLSP, was given by Joe Drew during the ARTSaha! festival in 2008. Drew has also given 9- and 12-hour performances of the piece, and is planning a 48-hour performance.

On September 5, 2012, as part of John Cage Day at the University of Adelaide, Australia, Stephen Whittington performed an 8-hour version of ASLSP on the Elder Hall organ. The eight sections of the work were each allocated an hour, with each section divided into segments of one minute, within which the precise timing of events was left open. In performance, seven sections were played, with one omitted and one repeated. Organ registrations were determined by chance procedures.

A 12-hour performance took place on September 4–5, 2015, in an all-night concert at Christ Church Cathedral in Montréal, Québec. The work was performed by the Cathedral organists, Patrick Wedd, Adrian Foster, and Alex Ross, while other Cage compositions were performed simultaneously in the church. The performers used a stopwatch, and the timing of each note was precisely calculated and written into the score.

Where does the inspiration to extend the elapsed time come from? Just a whim?

[San Antone]

Where does the inspiration to extend the elapsed time come from? Just a whim?

For the same reason that some performances of the Well Tempered Clavier are longer than others.

[Mandryka]

For the same reason that some performances of the Well Tempered Clavier are longer than others.

And I suppose the title is suggestive of something.

[San Antone]

And I suppose the title is suggestive of something.

I prefer the original for piano, for two reasons: I like the sound of the clusters on piano better and the decay of the notes provides a natural limit to the duration.

[San Antone]

Something from the 4'33" book which I think is interesting:

"Cage, Tudor and Feldman were having a long conversation when Feldman left the room, returning shortly with a composition he had written on graph paper. The notes to be played were indicated by dots in boxes, and each system consisted of three rows on the graph paper, representing high, middle, and low registers, respectively. This was the first of two series of pieces called Projections and Intersections, which indicated only register and left the actual pitches up to the performer.

Cage was impressed by Feldman's willingness to give up control over pitch and remarked soon afterward in his "Lecture on Something," "Feldman speaks of no sounds, and takes within broad limits the first ones that come along.... [He] has changed the responsibility of the composer from making to accepting." This license given the performer was an aspect that Feldman would eventually reject for his own use, but it helped nudge Cage toward the chance-based music he would spend the rest of his life writing, and one could imagine that this acceptance of sounds played some role in the move toward 4'33"."

Feldman rejected this idea but for Cage it became very important, arguably the most important focus of the rest of his career.

Example of Feldman's graphical score

[Mandryka]

This sort of thing is not without precedent for duration and rhythm -- maybe not for pitch

[San Antone]

This sort of thing is not without precedent for duration and rhythm -- maybe not for pitch

Interesting.  Is that a work by Couperin?  Which one?  Was it unique or are there other works for which he provided an indeterminate score?

[Mandryka]

Interesting.  Is that a work by Couperin?  Which one?  Was it unique or are there other works for which he provided an indeterminate score?

That one's by Louis Couperin. I think that we have 16 of them by him. It was 17th century French thing, there are examples for lute and keyboard. Here's a very famous one where you can follow the score

https://www.youtube.com/v/lqvm0k2VUtU

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Also: Elisabeth-Claude Jacquet de la Guerre wrote some notable music with that kind of notation

[San Antone]

out on november 18th: JOHN CAGE – Complete Song Books (2LP, 180gr / DL)



When REINHOLD FRIEDL (director of the ensemble ZEITKRATZER) entered the CLUNK Studio to record the whole cycle with RASHAD BECKER (who handled the feedback cabinet and live electronics), the idea was quite simple: to approach each single piece in an informal way but to do all 92 pieces in the right order. What came out in the end is a kaleidoscopic lecture and interpretation of the compositions with the help of a strange mixture of ancient and modern tools: new electronics, old and special microphones, self-built instruments, arbitrary garbage sounds, sophisticated live-electronics devices, quotes ... "Complete Song Books" turns out to be an early hymn for sonic freedom, a sonic promenade full of beautiful references.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

^^^^^ this looks very cool! Vinyl only?

[San Antone]

^^^^^ this looks very cool! Vinyl only?

Looks like.  But I could swear I saw a complete Song Books on Spotify - maybe same recording.

[Mandryka]

out on november 18th: JOHN CAGE – Complete Song Books (2LP, 180gr / DL)



When REINHOLD FRIEDL (director of the ensemble ZEITKRATZER) entered the CLUNK Studio to record the whole cycle with RASHAD BECKER (who handled the feedback cabinet and live electronics), the idea was quite simple: to approach each single piece in an informal way but to do all 92 pieces in the right order. What came out in the end is a kaleidoscopic lecture and interpretation of the compositions with the help of a strange mixture of ancient and modern tools: new electronics, old and special microphones, self-built instruments, arbitrary garbage sounds, sophisticated live-electronics devices, quotes ... "Complete Song Books" turns out to be an early hymn for sonic freedom, a sonic promenade full of beautiful references.

Have you heard Stockhausen's Momente? I wonder which James thinks is better, the Songbook or Momente, and why.

It's interesting for me to reflect on how I appreciate the Cage Songbook and, for example, Winterreise. The problem I have is to get beyond being amused and impressed by the shock of the new, Yes, Cage has succeeded in "épater la bourgeoisie" - has he done more? I'm inclined to think yes he has, that these songs are a real masterpiece, that they go deep deep deep into the unconscious, the most profound internal layers of the mind. Cage's greatest work.

Like Marcel Duchamp.

But I may be talking crap again.