John Cage (1912-92)

[snyprrr]

No Late Cageans here at the moment? starting with 'Ryoanji'....

[snyprrr]

After carefully pouring over all the Cage i could absorb in the time, I came to one particular disc that cried out as a first purchase:

Mode 'The Number Pieces Vol.6'

Five
Seven
Thirteen

'Seven' and 'Thirteen' sounded to me like really cool Feldman type works that were obviously by someone with a similar "feel", but with a completely different approach. The 'Five' on this recording was done with bowls (I usually do prefer the classical instruments)...

Anyhow, much of the 'Number Pieces' seemed to have waaay too much silence for me- the percussion work for four, 'Four4', which can be heard on YT, is a 72 minute percussion quartet that literally had me throwing things (not unusual). I just rejected it out of hand as complete b.s. Come on people, just give us the sounds, with the shortest amount of silence, please. We don't need to pay for "open windows" and "environmental sounds",... got'em right here, thank you very much. I WANT PERCUSSION when I get 72 minutes of percussion!!

Also, the violin+piano 'Two6' seemed to be about as threadbare as 20 minutes can get... i'm sorry, this just is not anything I want to spend time with. Give me billions of notes, like 'Music of Changes',... but, I really had a time of it going through the 'Number Pieces', the solos and duos- I just find a lot of it philosophical clap-trap... I just haaave to know that Cage performers are going to be caught up in all the ....eh... "spirituality"...

Like, asking Cage if you can use bowls for 'Five'... who gives a f&&&??... it seems there was never a request he didn't grant, so why make such a fuss to get ANYTHING "authorized" by him, since, technically, it shouldn't even matter in the first place. Just pick any random Cage piece and have at it and do what you want,... right? None of this "asking permission"... only ______s do that.


But, with Cage, with enough instruments, maybe there's actually a chance of hearing some tones with a little density behind them. I haven't received the package yet, but, I think one of the 3-4 "ensemble" recitals I was looking at (Barton Workshop on Megadisc, the HatHut series, the Mode series) was the way to go. 'Fourteen' also seemed like a winner. 'Eight' is a 60min. brass piece... and so forth...

So, once you get below 'Six' (just a 3min. percussion piece for six), things get complicated.... with the piano pieces especially... I found not much joy in 'One', which was only 10mins.!! I would have thought there was some more density here, but no. 'Two2', for two pianos, on Mode, is a different story... probably a masterpiece...

Violin solos for one note at a time? eh

I had the cello version, 'One8', with Berger on Wergo, (with Gubaidulina), but, it's just bzzzzzzzzz.....


I JUST CAN'T STAND "MUSIC" THAT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF THE AIR CONDITIONER, OR THE CREAKING OF THE FLOORBOARDS.

DON'T MAKE ME PAY MONEY FOR THINGS I CAN ENJOY IN THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!


rant:OFF

[snyprrr]

After carefully pouring over all the Cage i could absorb in the time, I came to one particular disc that cried out as a first purchase:

Mode 'The Number Pieces Vol.6'

Five
Seven
Thirteen

'Seven' and 'Thirteen' sounded to me like really cool Feldman type works that were obviously by someone with a similar "feel", but with a completely different approach. The 'Five' on this recording was done with bowls (I usually do prefer the classical instruments)...

Anyhow, much of the 'Number Pieces' seemed to have waaay too much silence for me- the percussion work for four, 'Four4', which can be heard on YT, is a 72 minute percussion quartet that literally had me throwing things (not unusual). I just rejected it out of hand as complete b.s. Come on people, just give us the sounds, with the shortest amount of silence, please. We don't need to pay for "open windows" and "environmental sounds",... got'em right here, thank you very much. I WANT PERCUSSION when I get 72 minutes of percussion!!

Also, the violin+piano 'Two6' seemed to be about as threadbare as 20 minutes can get... i'm sorry, this just is not anything I want to spend time with. Give me billions of notes, like 'Music of Changes',... but, I really had a time of it going through the 'Number Pieces', the solos and duos- I just find a lot of it philosophical clap-trap... I just haaave to know that Cage performers are going to be caught up in all the ....eh... "spirituality"...

Like, asking Cage if you can use bowls for 'Five'... who gives a f&&&??... it seems there was never a request he didn't grant, so why make such a fuss to get ANYTHING "authorized" by him, since, technically, it shouldn't even matter in the first place. Just pick any random Cage piece and have at it and do what you want,... right? None of this "asking permission"... only ______s do that.


But, with Cage, with enough instruments, maybe there's actually a chance of hearing some tones with a little density behind them. I haven't received the package yet, but, I think one of the 3-4 "ensemble" recitals I was looking at (Barton Workshop on Megadisc, the HatHut series, the Mode series) was the way to go. 'Fourteen' also seemed like a winner. 'Eight' is a 60min. brass piece... and so forth...

So, once you get below 'Six' (just a 3min. percussion piece for six), things get complicated.... with the piano pieces especially... I found not much joy in 'One', which was only 10mins.!! I would have thought there was some more density here, but no. 'Two2', for two pianos, on Mode, is a different story... probably a masterpiece...

Violin solos for one note at a time? eh

I had the cello version, 'One8', with Berger on Wergo, (with Gubaidulina), but, it's just bzzzzzzzzz.....


I JUST CAN'T STAND "MUSIC" THAT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF THE AIR CONDITIONER, OR THE CREAKING OF THE FLOORBOARDS.

DON'T MAKE ME PAY MONEY FOR THINGS I CAN ENJOY IN THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!


rant:OFF

huh, just can't get any Cage action here, huh?

not that I haven't been a chief ridiculer at times...


20 Pieces for 5 Orchestras (1981)

Forgive me if it's just to obvious from this that Cage is TOTALLY following Feldman at this point, this sounding a whole lot like Feldman's just previous "uppity phase" (1977-80/81). Why Late Cage and Late Feldman aren't paired more is odd.

Anyhow, now Cage and Feldman seem like the exact same "object" manifested by two different... uh... "means". Feldman strings things along like he was knitting, whereas Cage does his "time modules" type thing,... but, the results one "feels" are nearly identical, at least to me temperament. Maybe you see what I'm saying?

[snyprrr]

Four 4 (1991) for 4 percussionists @74mins.

I have been going through the Number Pieces, finding some to be Masterpieces, whilst others just seem to grate at my nerves with the sheer multitude of silences. This piece has three "realizations" on record: Amadinda on Hungaroton, the work's dedicatees, a one-man-overdubbed version on OgreOgress, and a third I can't recall at the moment. All of them run about 75 minutes. The Amadinda in on YT, which is what I... "heard"... if that's even the word to use.

"Rolling" of the timbres seems to be the M.O. here. Rolling waves of instruments with LOTS and lots of what seems like endless silences. Maybe they are playing very faintly, but, I am not a fan of, excuse me, what I call "pretentious pianissimo" (that's why I like Xenakis's constant "forte"; and Feldman, though "quiet", is usually sure to be audible).

This work gets RAVES for reviews, and I just couldn't care less. If anything sounded to me like a piece of "charlatan" music, it's this. Religious music for atheists who are spiritual? I just can't sit through this without becoming offended that someone is trying to profound-me, dude. I mean, I usually have a spiritual experience when I listen to percussion ensembles- again, Xenakis's 'Pleiades' IS an undeniable Masterpiece; it speaks the language of Masterpiece in every note of its 40 minutes.

Here, I get lots of silence, which I can get without the music at all. So, that leaves the music. Maybe I just found the Amadinda's choices boring? Maybe the other versions utilize the silences more? I don't know. But, since they all do, at least time wise, follow the same structure, I am ASSuming that the others continue with the "rolling" thing. There are no thuds in this piece!


So, I was terribly disappointed that I spent over an hour for this,... and I couldn't here too well what MIGHT have been going on under my volume threshold. I mean, this was like a MOST tiresome "1970s" type thing being passed off as, say, "healing music", or spiritual, or what have you. Sorry, but here I think Feldman would have created a music more interesting 70 minutes of music for 4 percussionists.

Other Number Pieces that just had too much silence for my taste were 'One', and 'One5'. 'One2', on the other hand, - having the same music- and four times longer than 'One'- had a whole lot more interest going for it.

rant"OFF

[snyprrr]

Look, i've come around to Cage, and no one cares!

Still, I find a looot of his "stuff" just annoying and grating and poofy, especially sometimes the man himself. The effete sound of his voice, his mannerisms, all that "theater music and dance"... poofery I tell you!!


But, i have been taken with the Mode Cycle, and I think the best part about Cage is the part the performer brings. The performance of the 2 Piano piece 'Two2', which runs for 75mins., is as Feldmanesque as anyone could want. Masterpiece!

[snyprrr]

Variations I-VIII

How do you feel about these pieces from the 60s, very open ended?

[Scion7]

Look, i've come around to Cage, and no one cares!

I care! I'm disappointed. Come back to the good side of the Force!   

[nathanb]

Look, i've come around to Cage, and no one cares!

Still, I find a looot of his "stuff" just annoying and grating and poofy, especially sometimes the man himself. The effete sound of his voice, his mannerisms, all that "theater music and dance"... poofery I tell you!!


But, i have been taken with the Mode Cycle, and I think the best part about Cage is the part the performer brings. The performance of the 2 Piano piece 'Two2', which runs for 75mins., is as Feldmanesque as anyone could want. Masterpiece!

Cage was a bit of a ninny, if we're being honest. But what gay composer wasn't? Britten's libretti, before they get dark and twisted, often make me feel like I'm listening to Mary Poppins.

I have MP3s of every Mode Cage Edition I could find, so, like, 85% of them. David Tudor may be historical, but give me Schleiermacher's MDG stuff or Liebner's NEOS/Wergo stuff to fill in the gaps, and that's all the Cage I'll ever need. Well, it leaves a few gaps.... you need Bird Cage on Sub Rosa too at least...

[Karl Henning]

Cage was a bit of a ninny, if we're being honest.

Dude, let's stick to the music.  The colleagues of mine who met Cage spoke him very well.

snypsss, you want this recording.  Yes, yes, you do.

[snyprrr]

Dude, let's stick to the music.  The colleagues of mine who met Cage spoke him very well.

snypsss, you want this recording.  Yes, yes, you do.

Huh, I didn't realize it had 'Seventy-Four' on it! Still, I'm just not a big fan of mixing "phases", and Cage has quite a line of demarcation. OK< I won't argue.... THAAAANK YOU, KARL!! 0:)

Cage was a bit of a ninny, if we're being honest. But what gay composer wasn't? Britten's libretti, before they get dark and twisted, often make me feel like I'm listening to Mary Poppins.

I have MP3s of every Mode Cage Edition I could find, so, like, 85% of them. David Tudor may be historical, but give me Schleiermacher's MDG stuff or Liebner's NEOS/Wergo stuff to fill in the gaps, and that's all the Cage I'll ever need. Well, it leaves a few gaps.... you need Bird Cage on Sub Rosa too at least...

I'm really quite taken with Mode's presentation. Currently I'm wondering how to get all three volumes of 'A Cage of Saxophones' without starving, or not driving, or rent, or.........

the one with 'Five', 'Seven', and 'Thirteen' really must be the best overall recital of this kind, and their 'Two2' for 2Pianos, which lasts 75mins. and has 30 Tracks, is just a Feldmanesque masterpiece.

Looking at 'Percussion Works Vol.3' with the "plant" pieces,... and Drury's 'Piano Works Vol.1' with 'One', 'Music for Two', and 'One5'...

This is a RABBIT HOLE if there ever was one...

I care! I'm disappointed. Come back to the good side of the Force!   

Yea, I know,... and I know James can't be too pleased by this... but I think I'd almost have to pick Cage over KHS at this point, if only for the NumberPieces... KHS seems he just HAD to put "vocalizing" into his Late Works, and, amazingly, Cage got more "normal". 'Thirteen' sounds like advanced 50s Feldman to me...

But, please, trust me, the annoying parts of Cage (oy, and, sorry, that includes what I heard of 'Bird Cage'- that's where I think I heard his effete talking- "oh, and how are yoooou?"- just like a queer old grannie...

he rebelled against a churchy upbringing, no?


Seriously, if I don't block out the queerness all I experience in my mind is some 'The Birthday Party' type event with Cage, Virgil, Rorem, Bernstein, Copland, delTredici, Helps,- shit, it's ALL of them- all having... ewww... a ball... (you know, I'm sure we all want to be a fly on the wall and see/hear for ourselves... brrrrr)...

the smell of ____ & ____ fills the nostrils.....





I can see Cage being some devilish thing in that he is so permissive... "oh, allow eeeeverything"... but, as we see now, when you tolerate anything, you must them even tolerate the intolerable... and that doesn't work out in the... end...





Music for a Loose Schvinckter






















9(ack, uh boy,.... now I'm sure to get banned for life )







And I'm not saying I've lived my life like an angel.... uhhhhhhh........





(stop typing dude)





NO!!!, You can't make me!!!!







(what's Karl thinking right now?)







HOW DID I GET ON A JOHN CAGE KICK?  HE REMINDS ME OF MY LIBERAL GRANDMOTHER!!!!!! (and looks just like the old guy at the bar... should get pics)

[Scion7]

 

[snyprrr]

I have MP3s of every Mode Cage Edition I could find, so, like, 85% of them. David Tudor may be historical, but give me Schleiermacher's MDG stuff or Liebner's NEOS/Wergo stuff to fill in the gaps, and that's all the Cage I'll ever need. Well, it leaves a few gaps.... you need Bird Cage on Sub Rosa too at least...

Questions, please!!!

1) LIEBNER: a) isn't her 'Australes' just a bit on the slow side? I'm awaiting SchleierMR here anydaynow. I picked him over
                         all others based on what I heard on the Feldman sets. Surely if he plays so well "quiet", he should do great
                         "loud:. (otoh- apparently his 'Music of Changes' is a lot slower than everyone elses)

                     b) Liebner vs. Drury in 'One' and 'One5'.

                         'One'/'One5': could you please give me a heads-up on this one? I just really almost can't std both of these
                                              because of the apparent "lack of sh*t breaking up the SILENCE". I hear both on YT, and both
                                              bore me to tears. Out of all the NumberPieces, the 'One' Cycle seem to me the most... well, fill-in-the-blank...............................I used to have Berger in the cello solo 'One8', and I've heard the violin version- I mean, it's
                                             eye-roll-heaven. Please, do you like it/them?

                     *very curious how you stack Liebner, Schleiermacher, Drury, Leng Tan, and the rest.



2) Just ordered 'A Cage of Saxophones Vol.1'- I think that whole set is just what I like, especially Vols.3-4.

3) Really like the Two4 for Violin and Piano/Sho, both versions on that Arditti disc. I was surprised, but the sho version is really nice and deep. Both works have "lots of music" so to speak, no brain frying silences. Two6 for Violin and Piano starts with an obvious Feldman quote, but then settles into the dreary silence thing... am I just not hearing things on the computer??? Where's the beef??? btw- Schleiermacher/Seidel are the only competition here, what do you think?

4) Considering 'Percussion Music Vol.4' on Mode, with 'Branches', 'Child of Tree', and 'One4'. What do you think? Wergo has
    competition.



I think that's "all" I'm trying to limit myself to. Ack, what has become of me, Cage junkie??? Where is James??

[snyprrr]

CRC- help!!!

[James]

Yea, I know,... and I know James can't be too pleased by this...

I did what you're doing myself, long, long, loooong ago .. it's how I come to my conclusions. You have to sort of immerse yourself so that you can talk about it. With his stuff, it's easy. In fact, I have many old Cage discs and probably a few pieces of old vinyl in the house somewhere, stashed away in a box ..

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Seventeen is a more groundbreaking composition than 4'33"

[Monsieur Croche]

Seriously, if I don't block out the queerness all I experience in my mind is some 'The Birthday Party' type event with Cage, Virgil, Rorem, Bernstein, Copland, delTredici, Helps,- shit, it's ALL of them- all having... ewww... a ball... (you know, I'm sure we all want to be a fly on the wall and see/hear for ourselves... brrrrr)...

the smell of ____ & ____ fills the nostrils....

Alrighty, then.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." ~ Shakespeare; Hamlet

Best regards.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I've been listening to a lot of Cage pieces this morning, his is incredibly fascinating!   

The number pieces are some of my favourite works of his. Have you been listening to much of those?

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

There are many...I plan on listening to 101 for the first time soon. I don't know much about Cage's orchestral music so I look forward to hearing more.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

what do you think of Cage's 'middle period' works? I can't say I know much of what he did then and what I have heard hasn't been something I have connected with as much as his works from the 80s and 90s.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Yes that period exactly. Perhaps there is a trend in those pieces for faster changes and busier textures than in his later works which I am not getting so into at the moment, but I can't say I dislike things like Water Walk etc.
Even Roaratorio and things like that I might possibly include here.

Hmmm

I really love the aesthetic ideas in his number pieces, maybe that's just what I like most right now!