Schonberg on Sibelius

[Mark G. Simon]

I've also looked through the posts of Two-Tone, and he is clearly an obnoxious poster.  However, he has posted much more than just cheap shots.

Obviously he's taken my criticism to heart. He has, since I posted that remark earlier, expounded at admirable length on numerous works which he enjoys. I hope to see more of such postings from him (and less of the other kind).

[Mark G. Simon]

Personally, I'd rather discuss music than attack anyone. I'd rather say good things about composers I like and to keep silent on those I don't.  I suggest that Two-Tone should try the same approach.

[Kullervo]

The problem with Bulldog, Mark Simon, Corey, Karlhenning, Sergeant York et alii

A group I'm honored to be a part of.

(How significant it is indeed in this respect that they have failed to respond to my posts on Kurtag and Lutoslawski. On the evidence of their posts since my arrival here one would have to conclude they just do not have the ability to discuss music, maturely, knowledgeably, and intelligently.)

Not everyone here shares my enthusiasm for the music of Per Nørgård, but I don't take that as an indication that the people here are unintelligent; they simply haven't heard his music.

Yet another problem with Ross (perhaps is that the reason why he is so well liked around here, lol) is, when he doesn't like a Composer (and Ross usually does not like the better guy), instead of criticizing the music he attacks and smears the man - his intemperate and obsessive vandetta against Pierre Boulez, his focus on alleged flaws of character, being an obvious case in point.

I think Ross is more opposed to Boulez's early striving at justifying his personal taste with manifestos (symptomatic of the latter half of the 20th Century). The vehemence of their tirades belie their horror at not being able to explain away the mystery of preference. He's since mellowed out and has created some of the most interesting music of the past 30 years.

Not that it really matters in the end, as true music lovers are still pondering these platonistic marvels, Boulez's Notations for piano

And worthy pieces they are.

[Bulldog]

Not that it really matters in the end, as true music lovers are still pondering these platonistic marvels, Boulez's Notations for piano, while the remainders of The Rest is Noise that have not gone down the shredder are getting priced down at Strands book store.

Right - only those who share your musical preferences are true music lovers. 

[Catison]

Is it OK to like Boulez, Sibelius, and Alex Ross?

[drogulus]

I think the 5 pages allotted to John Adams in The Rest is Noise are fully warranted. Ross cannot predict which composers of today his readers 50 years from now are most likely to encounter, but he knows his readers today are going to be listening to Adams and wanting to find something about that composer in his book. Clearly personal preference also plays a role in his selection. Admirers of Golijov will have to settle for two paragraphs.

Ross' enthusiasm for 20th century music, as well as his knowledge, is evident on every page, and this makes the book a joy to read.

     Though I might have preferred a different selection of composers to devote long sections to, I found the book fascinating. I would have preferred a longer book, since I wouldn't really throw out any of his choices, I'd just add to them.

[Bulldog]

Is it OK to like Boulez, Sibelius, and Alex Ross?

NO!

[karlhenning]

(An added problem with Mark Simon and Karlhenning is they try - and fail - to hide their (understandable) complexes of inferiority, behind clownlike, unrealistic claims to domination, arguments of authority, and undue claims to maturity; but perhaps these are ridicules, rather than problems).

Maybe we all enjoy a superiority complex.  Just a thought.

Psst!  You'll be better off discussing music, rather than speculating about the problems of anyone who is not yourself.

[Kullervo]

Perhaps they would if it was clear what exactly you were talking about. 

[Catison]

As a public service:

mendacities

n., pl. -ties.

   1. The condition of being mendacious; untruthfulness.
   2. A lie; a falsehood.

[karlhenning]

Site seems pretty active to me.

Or is that a mendacity?

What did Schonberg say about Sibelius, again? 

[greg]

No wonder there is so little activity on this site - music lovers would rather stay at home & listen to the music than put up with the mendacities, the false claims, the stupidities, the lies, the insults, and the defamations, of a failed composer.

Perhaps site owners should ponder this...

lol, wtf is up with you?

[drogulus]

No wonder there is so little activity on this site - music lovers would rather stay at home & listen to the music than put up with the mendacities, the false claims, the stupidities, the lies, the insults, and the defamations, of a failed composer.

Perhaps site owners should ponder this...

     Adorno? I was trying to think of an example and he just naturally sprang to mind. 

     Somehow I don't think the problem with musical tastes that differ from your own has much to do with lying or defamation. Do you have examples?

[bhodges]

Gentlemen, please return to topic, i.e., comments on Sibelius (and/or Schonberg).  If further personal sniping is desired (or goodwill wishes  ), please do it via P.M.  Thank you...

--Bruce

[karlhenning]

     Somehow I don't think the problem with musical tastes that differ from your own has much to do with lying or defamation. Do you have examples?

OTOH, Leibowitz's dismissal of Sibelius as "the world's worst composer" clearly is defamation.

[mn dave]

Dittersdorf

Or so I hear...

[Kullervo]

Dittersdorf

Or so I hear...

Exactly — you just have to hear Dittersdorf. 

[Bulldog]

Nah, it's misjudgment. Sibelius clearly is the world's second worst composer, Shostakovich is the worst 

You're repeating yourself - read the transcript.

[The new erato]

There's something very like the young Boulez about Two Tone. With age Boulez has become wiser.....

[Kullervo]

At least the quality of his music allowed others to pardon somewhat his priggishness. We don't all have such a saving grace.