The Karajan Legacy (recordings)

[Novi]

Listeners turned off by his hair/appearance??

I have problems with Richter's combover on the cover of his Brahms PC 2 with Leindsdorf, but it's the recording I go to the most .

[karlhenning]

Never a man to take musical matters lightly Richter was incensed. It was bad enough there would be no retake but the reason Karajan gave for the snub put the burn solidly in Richter: Karajan's next stop later that day - a photo shoot.

As in, glam city!!

Hairstyles and attitudes, are they connected? . . .

[Harry]

Lets not forget that Karajan commanded the ladies to come, and they did, he was indeed quite a womanizer.
I would do the same if I could............................
I try................

[karlhenning]

Lets not forget that Karajan commanded the ladies to come, and they did, he was indeed quite a womanizer.

Quite the Kommandant, then, he was? 

[uffeviking]

Lets not forget that Karajan commanded the ladies to come, and they did, he was indeed quite a womanizer.

My objection originally was the incorrect statement by a poster that he married a number of them! Let's not get this thread out of line, please.

I wish you good luck, Harry, commanding the ladies to come to you, but the results of your efforts would then belong in The Diner! 

[Harry]

Quite the Kommandant, then, he was? 

Well I would have loved to be that Kommandant!

[Harry]

My objection originally was the incorrect statement by a poster that he married a number of them! Let's not get this thread out of line, please.

I wish you good luck, Harry, commanding the ladies to come to you, but the results of your efforts would then belong in The Diner! 

Lis one remark about his qualities as a womanizer, does not qualify for the Diner, as I am sure you think also.
As to the results of my effort, I will send you PM's if the need arises.
Only for your eyes.

[Harry]

Karajan is know, for his fabulous insight into the core of some music, and not all. Among them greatest I would place Bruckner first and foremost, followed by Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky.
Apart from that there is not a single recording of him that really disappointed me, not even the opera's I heard with much pain . He has a genius, never repeated by any conductor alive or dead.
Therefore I will again and again tell of this marvelous musician, that made the maids scream, and the fellows jealous.

[karlhenning]

My objection originally was the incorrect statement by a poster that he married a number of them!

A practice to which any actual wife would understandably object . . . .

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I have problems with Richter's combover on the cover of his Brahms PC 2 with Leindsdorf, but it's the recording I go to the most .

Yeah, the combover as a fashion statement leaves much to be desired!

[sonic1]

Well, this would not be the GMG forum without a Karajan brawl.

Aside form his "looks" or other attributes of his personality, which I have no interest in at all myself, I find his music to be very "saucy", and will repeat the other adjective "mushy" which is often used to describe his works. But that is within the music I personally have heard: I have NOT heard his Tchaikovsky, but I did not care for his Brahms, Beethoven, and other things I can't recall at the moment. There is a sound of his that lots of people don't like so much. But if he works for you, don't let any of us rain on your parade. Everyone has their own tastes. Calling him the greatest, however, will certainly not pass a lot of very discerning classical fans.

[Michel]

I have a request:

Could those who believe Karajan "glosses over", or whatever phrase you use, please list the specific recordings they are referring to? That way, we might be able to have a more constructive discussion. I for one believe that a lot of this is hear say.

[Haffner]

I have a request:

Could those who believe Karajan "glosses over", or whatever phrase you use, please list the specific recordings they are referring to? That way, we might be able to have a more constructive discussion. I for one believe that a lot of this is hear say.

I'd be interested as well. I find HvK to be perfect especially at pieces that were meant by the composer to be driving and powerful (his 1962 LvB "Eroica", Mozart's "Jupiter" finale, etc.).

[Israfel the Black]

Karajan is know, for his fabulous insight into the core of some music, and not all. Among them greatest I would place Bruckner first and foremost, followed by Beethoven, Brahms, and Tchaikovsky.
Apart from that there is not a single recording of him that really disappointed me, not even the opera's I heard with much pain . He has a genius, never repeated by any conductor alive or dead.
Therefore I will again and again tell of this marvelous musician, that made the maids scream, and the fellows jealous.

I take Celibidache's Bruckner over Karajan.

[sonic1]

I have a request:

Could those who believe Karajan "glosses over", or whatever phrase you use, please list the specific recordings they are referring to? That way, we might be able to have a more constructive discussion. I for one believe that a lot of this is hear say.

Oh come on! You have been here long enough to know that most of us are music freaks. To accuse us of heresay, rather than admit that Karajan's style doesn't appeal to everyone is totally silly.

Not only have I heard, but I own recordings of Karajan's Beethoven, Brahms, his version of Der fliegende Holländer (Wagner), and actually quite a few other things (you will have to forgive me I am in alaska right now, far from my music collection to help myself recall everything I have). I mostly got his recordings when I knew less about music, and thought I just didn't like the pieces themselves. My introduction to him was his Brahms: Music for string instruments, percussion and celesta, which he successfully mushed all to hell.

I, for one, am not going to argue that my perspective on him is more important than yours. If you like him, GREAT! My point was just for the new-comer, and letting him/her know the reason some of us don't consider him this great conductor, the best of the times, whatever...

[Florestan]

My introduction to him was his Brahms: Music for string instruments, percussion and celesta, which he successfully mushed all to hell.

You mean Bartok, don't you?

[sonic1]

You mean Bartok, don't you?

thank you, yes. Sorry. been traveling across the country and am a little out of it.

[Tsaraslondon]

I suppose the fact that Karajan has already generated 7 pages of comments, shows that he remains a contraversial figure, about whom people find it quite hard to be objective. Maria Callas, another contraversial performer, only acheived 3 pages in the Opera Section. However, most of the comments were in the diva's favour and she certainly wasn't subject to some of the vitriolic comments Karajan has received.

I am not a Karajan adulator, but I do believe he was one of the most important and influential figures in 20th century music. He was also remarkably successful in a wide range of music, much wider than Karl Boem, for instance. Many have mentioned his successes in the Austro/German repertoire and also in Shostakovich and Sibelius, but he also recorded a very fine Prokoviev 5 and Debussy La Mer for DG for instance and his Vienna Phil the Planets is well worth seeking out.

He also had great success in Italian opera. His work with Callas (Il Trovatore, Madama Butterly and Lucia di Lammermoor) produced top recommendations in all 3 operas. Other great Italian opera recordings include Falstaff, with Gobbi, both Aidas (Tebaldi in the first, Freni in the second), la Boheme and Madama Butterfly (again), both with Pavarotti, and a superb Verdi Requiem, with Leontyne Price and Pavarotti, unfortunately only available on DVD or Video. Admittedly there were a few questionable casting choices in the later opera sets (I'm thinking Ricciarelli in Turandot and Barstow in Un Ballo in Maschera, though Domingo gives us the best of his recorded Riccardos in this set), but very few of these later recordings are absolute duds. He was very much a singer's conductor. I remember Jessye Norman being interviewed after doing concerts of Isolde's Liebestod with Karajan. When asked if she felt she could now go on to sing the complete role on stage, she replied with Karajan, maybe, with anyone else, absolutely not.

[sonic1]

I concur that Karajan's influence and success has been great. And I don't doubt his musical ability at all. I personally just don't care for his sound. I don't have a huge negative reaction to his music-can even enjoy it in the absence of other conductors. But if I had a choice between Karajan, and a lot of other conductors, I would choose the other in a lot of cases.

I will say that he has a very identifiable sound, which is quite an accomplishment. I just don't happen to personally like it much. There are many conductors I would prefer over Karajan, who don't have such a personal sound. There is nothing wrong with this personal sort of touch-obviously a lot of people like it.

My only point is to highlight that not everyone digs Karajan, and in fact, quite a few dislike his sound. Instead of accusing us of not really knowing his music, or saying this or that, how about saying, 'OK, different strokes for different folks".

I won't push Boulez on you if you don't push Karajan on me...something like that.

[Bonehelm]

I concur that Karajan's influence and success has been great. And I don't doubt his musical ability at all. I personally just don't care for his sound. I don't have a huge negative reaction to his music-can even enjoy it in the absence of other conductors. But if I had a choice between Karajan, and a lot of other conductors, I would choose the other in a lot of cases.

I will say that he has a very identifiable sound, which is quite an accomplishment. I just don't happen to personally like it much. There are many conductors I would prefer over Karajan, who don't have such a personal sound. There is nothing wrong with this personal sort of touch-obviously a lot of people like it.

My only point is to highlight that not everyone digs Karajan, and in fact, quite a few dislike his sound. Instead of accusing us of not really knowing his music, or saying this or that, how about saying, 'OK, different strokes for different folks".

I won't push Boulez on you if you don't push Karajan on me...something like that.

Thanks for the input. Would you be so kind to recommend some conductors that you prefer over Karajan for Beethoven symphonies?