Started by Homo Aestheticus, October 20, 2008, 07:11:33 PM
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Quote from: PSmith08 on May 28, 2009, 12:50:45 PMI limited my point to testing for non-pathological conditions -- a limitation I continue to accept. I would, I think with some justification, call depression a pathology, and thus outside the scope of my point. The fact that a child, otherwise pathology-free, does not conform to synthetic norms of aptitude or ability is another matter entirely. Conflating a real condition like depression or dyslexia or (to a certain extent) autism with something like not getting long division (which can be a real pain) serves no real purpose and is, to my mind, a false combination.
Quote from: c#minor on May 28, 2009, 01:37:31 PMUnfortunately there is a social norm that people must conform to. If a child is showing non-conformist tendencies, those tendencies are more likely than not to manifest into adult non-conformist attitude. Our world, as much as we would not like to think, ostracizes those who are different. Those who conform are more likely to be successful. Anything to help a child grow up into a "normal" adult I think is worth the risks.
Quote from: PSmith08 on May 28, 2009, 02:54:12 PMAll of what you say could be true, but it also depends on who defines the social norms and who defines success. While pretty much everyone can agree on what constitutes social behavior, I daresay that the proper norms for behavior, while sharing some common elements, will vary from social group to social group. There is a lot of cultural baggage attached to any social group's definition of the norms to which it expects its offspring to conform. I would also warrant that social norms vary from economic group to economic group. The same undoubtedly goes with a definition of success. So, when you say that children deserve all the help they can get in conforming to social norms so they'll be successful, that really doesn't say much to me.In any event, I find the notion that children be pressed into some hypothetical, synthetic mold "for their own good" specious. Indeed, it says more than I think we'd like about modern society when the idea that children are non-conformist to norms of cognition, aptitude, and behavior is so odious to parents and educators that a cottage industry of experts and pharmaceuticals has sprung up with the idea of correcting the deviations from tolerances.
Quote from: c#minor on May 28, 2009, 01:37:31 PMI do however think there is a problem with false diagnosis. Bipolar disorder in children is vastly over-diagnosed by primary care physicians who do not particularly know what they are doing in the world of psychological ailments.
QuoteHow do you know
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on May 29, 2009, 06:57:36 AM"Under the system in this country this is considered learning disabled... The amazing thing is that you are still here, that you managed to get through the system without having sabotaged your life in a serious way. You have a lot of resilience"
Quote from: Florestan on May 29, 2009, 07:01:55 AMThe crux of the matter: it's not you who had problems, but the system itself.
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on May 29, 2009, 09:14:37 AMBut you acknowledged that academic ability is something real, yes ?
Quote from: Florestan on May 29, 2009, 11:04:11 AMYes.
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on October 20, 2008, 07:11:33 PMACDouglas has an excellent comment today:http://www.soundsandfury.com/soundsandfury/2008/10/gee-what-a-surprise.htmlUnbelievable.And did this whole trend really begin in the 1960's ?
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on May 30, 2009, 04:31:44 AMThe reason I'm asking is that earlier in this thread you said that intellectual ability could not be defined but now you've said that academic ability is something real. Could you clarify this ?
Quote from: Florestan on May 30, 2009, 05:06:42 AMSure. Academic ability is exactly what your counselor measured and found you to be lacking. Intellectual ability is different.Take Einstein's case: he performed very poorly in high-school, to the point of being called a simpleton by his teachers. His academic ability was low.He graduated from the Zurich Polytechnic Institute and worked as a clerk in the Patents Office, where he wrote the papers which made him famous. His intellectual ability was one of the highest in the world.I hope you see now what I mean.
Quote from: The Unrepentant Pelleastrian on May 30, 2009, 06:11:15 PMMixed ability teaching is the single most destructive set up ever.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 31, 2009, 02:50:17 AM(* yawn *)
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