Ravel's Rotunda

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, October 20, 2008, 08:46:41 PM

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Mirror Image

Quote from: vers la flamme on December 29, 2019, 07:41:42 AM
No Ravel talk in 2019?! Gotta give this thread a bump before New Year's...

Does anyone else think that the Passacaille third movement of Ravel's Piano Trio in A minor is one of the most beautiful movements in all 20th century chamber music? Listening now, I am blown away... the piano trio may even be better than the string quartet... this is the recording I have:



... it's great! Finally, I still have yet to hear Ravel's violin sonatas – who has made a good recording of them?! I'm eyeing this one:

[asin] B00005KK27[/asin]

Ravel's Piano Trio is an exceptionally fine work. I really love the performance from The Nash Ensemble on Virgin Classics. All of Ravel's chamber music is top-drawer and the same can be said about so much he composed whether it be solo piano, voice/piano, ballet, concerto, opera, etc. He is in my 'Top 3' for a reason!

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 29, 2019, 06:55:03 PM
Ravel's Piano Trio is an exceptionally fine work. I really love the performance from The Nash Ensemble on Virgin Classics. All of Ravel's chamber music is top-drawer and the same can be said about so much he composed whether it be solo piano, voice/piano, ballet, concerto, opera, etc. He is in my 'Top 3' for a reason!
I believe that I have much less experience listening to classical music than you do, and a much less extensive library. That being said I'm inclined to agree re: Ravel. Likely a top 3 composer for me too. I've spent very much time this year getting to know and listening to his music.

Jo498

I am not even the greatest fan of Ravel overall, but I think some of his works, especially the trio and the left hand concerto, are tremendous and among the very best of their respective genres.
May I ask one non-related question: Is the trio by Florent Schmitt on the Naxos really only a 3 min. single movement or am I misunderstanding the tracklisting?
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

vers la flamme

Quote from: Jo498 on December 30, 2019, 01:59:50 AM
I am not even the greatest fan of Ravel overall, but I think some of his works, especially the trio and the left hand concerto, are tremendous and among the very best of their respective genres.
May I ask one non-related question: Is the trio by Florent Schmitt on the Naxos really only a 3 min. single movement or am I misunderstanding the tracklisting?

No, that's right. It's 3 minutes. Disappointingly short as it's a beautiful 3 minutes! It's also the only Florent Schmitt in my whole library. I need to check out more of his work.

ritter

Quote from: Jo498 on December 30, 2019, 01:59:50 AM
May I ask one non-related question: Is the trio by Florent Schmitt on the Naxos really only a 3 min. single movement or am I misunderstanding the tracklisting?

Quote from: vers la flamme on December 30, 2019, 03:29:41 AM
No, that's right. It's 3 minutes. Disappointingly short as it's a beautiful 3 minutes! It's also the only Florent Schmitt in my whole library. I need to check out more of his work.
I apologise for remaining off-topic, but just to clarify: what's performed on that CD (which I haven't listened to) is the third movement of Florent Schmitt 's Trio op. 85a (which has 4 movements and lasts ca. 9 minutes in total). That Trio is a rescoring (by the composer himself) for standard piano trio forces of his Sonatine en Trio op. 85, originally flute, clarinet and harpsichord. Some information can be found here.


bhodges

Quote from: vers la flamme on December 29, 2019, 07:41:42 AM
Finally, I still have yet to hear Ravel's violin sonatas – who has made a good recording of them?! I'm eyeing this one:

[asin] B00005KK27[/asin]

Though I haven't heard this recording, I have heard Gautier twice live, and found him superb in each case. Will be eager to hear this, and your comments if you take the plunge.

My current favorite Sonate Posthume is on the splendid ECM recording with Kavakos and Peter Nagy, with Ravel and Enescu works.

--Bruce

kyjo

Quote from: Daverz on December 29, 2019, 11:40:31 AM
Yes, the Ravel Trio one of the most perfect chamber works ever written.

+1 Probably my favorite work by Ravel as well as one of my favorite pieces of all time. I had the privilege of playing it (cello) about a year and a half ago and it was a fantastic experience!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

kyjo

Quote from: vers la flamme on December 29, 2019, 07:41:42 AM
[asin] B00005KK27[/asin]

A great disc containing the best recording of the Piano Trio that I've heard.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Madiel

#288
Who do we go for in the orchestral works?

To be honest I'm not super-interested in the solo piano orchestrations, but they to crop up anyway so I'm looking at complete or near-complete sets.

Ones I'm seeing crop up with favourable comments include:

Dutoit (some of which I already have)
Boulez earlier recordings in Cleveland and New York (CBS/Sony) - though this one seems a tad controversial
Boulez later recordings in Berlin (Deutsche Grammophon)
Ozawa
Abbado

Any thoughts on these or other recommendations?
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vers la flamme

^I have the Abbado disc with the Bolero and Ma mère l'Oye, it's pretty good. My favorite recordings though are Cluytens with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra. Outside of those, Jean Martinon is another good set from what I've heard. I'm not that big on Boulez or Dutoit.

Anyway, don't sleep on the orchestrated Tombeau de Couperin. One of my favorite works!

Madiel

Yeah, except Ravel figured out not all of the Tombeau was capable of being orchestrated.  And as the Toccata is one of the most amazing (and hardest) things I ever learned to play, not finishing with it is always going to be letdown for me.
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vers la flamme

Quote from: Madiel on January 16, 2020, 02:36:39 AM
Yeah, except Ravel figured out not all of the Tombeau was capable of being orchestrated.  And as the Toccata is one of the most amazing (and hardest) things I ever learned to play, not finishing with it is always going to be letdown for me.

That doesn't mean those movements he did orchestrate aren't worth a listen. Still great music. :)

ritter

#292
Quote from: Madiel on January 16, 2020, 12:40:44 AM
Who do we go for in the orchestral works?
...
Any thoughts on these or other recommendations?

I wholeheartedly recommend the first Boulez traversal (i.e., the CBS / Sony recordings). The fact that this was my introduction to this music may make me a bit partial, but in any case the clarity of these performances is exemplary, and the set in its most recent incarnation (pictured below) is quite comprehensive, as it includes some smaller, lesser works not available elsewhere, and is nicely complemented with an outstanding disc of Ravel songs (with e.g. Jessye Norman unparalleled in the Chansons madécasses, and Jill Gomez ravishing in the Trois poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé). FWIW, in an interview I read many years ago I remember Krystian Zimerman referring to Boulez's NYPO Daphnis et Chloé as "the most successful orchestral recording he had ever heard" (or something to that effect). I personally prefer these earlier recordings to the lusher DG remakes (great as those are, of course).

[asin]B0129YC7L4[/asin]
Boulez never recorded the Piano Concerto in G for Columbia, but the recording with Philippe Entremont conducted by Ormandy (which complemented the same pianist's rendition of the Concerto for the Left Hand under Boulez) is included in this set. In any case, the Concerto for the Left Hand is the one exception where the later DG recording with Zimerman is (vastly) superior to the earlier version, and is actually for many the reference recording of the work. An even later version of both concertos with Pierre-Laurent Aimard is not as convincing, in my view.

I believe that Boulez's relation to Ravel is an interesting one; he wouldn't mention that composer's name when referring to the "giants" of 20th century music (essentially, in his view, the three Viennese, plus Stravinsky, Bartók and Debussy), but I also sense a close affinity between Boulez the conductor and Ravel's compositions, and his famous "precision" suits these works very well, bringing to the forefront all the marvels of the orchestration. Interestingly, the only published arrangement by Boulez of a work by another composer is his orchestration of the enigmatic Frontispice (originally for 2 pianos, 5 hands!). Unfortunately, that has not been recorded (but is available on YouTube). In short, I get the feeling that Boulez, regardless of any other considerations, really loved Ravel's music, and this shines through his recordings.

I must confess I was rather disappointed by the Martinon cycle, which I found "mushy" (for lack of a better term). An interesting , antithetical approach to that of Boulez, but very satisfying IMO, is that of Manuel Rosenthal (but with 1950s vintage sound and almost impossible to find these days). I should listen to the Cluytens (which I have in the big Erato box of that conductor's recordings, but haven't approached so far).


Mirror Image

Quote from: ritter on January 16, 2020, 06:02:55 AM
I wholeheartedly recommend the first Boulez traversal (i.e., the CBS / Sony recordings). The fact that this was my introduction to this music may make me a bit partial, but in any case the clarity of these performances is exemplary, and the set in its most recent incarnation (pictured below) is quite comprehensive, as it includes some smaller, lesser works not available elsewhere, and is nicely complemented with an outstanding disc of Ravel songs (with e.g. Jessye Norman unparalleled in the Chansons madécasses, and Jill Gomez ravishing in the Trois poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé). FWIW, in an interview many years ago I remember Krystian Zimerman referring to Boulez's NYPO Daphnis et Chloé as "the most successful orchestral recording he had ever heard" (or something to that effect). I personally prefer these earlier recordings to the lusher DG remakes (great as those are, of course).

[asin]B0129YC7L4[/asin]
Boulez never recorded the Piano Concerto in G for Columbia, but the recording with Philippe Entremont conducted by Ormandy (which complemented the same pianist's rendition of the Concerto for the Left Hand under Boulez) is included in this set. In any case, the Concerto for the Left Hand is the one exception where the later DG recording with Zimerman is (vastly) superior to the earlier version, and is actually for many the reference recording of the work. An even later version of both concertos with Pierre-Laurent Aimard is not as convincing, in my view.

I believe that Boulez's relation to Ravel is an interesting one; he never mentioned that composer's name when referring to the "giants" of 20th century music (essentially, in his view, the three Viennese, plus Stravinsky, Bartók and Debussy), but I also sense a close affinity between Boulez the conductor and Ravel's compositions, and his famous "precision" suits these works very well, bringing to the forefront all the marvels of the orchestration. Interestingly, the only published arrangement by Boulez of a work by another composer is his orchestration of the enigmatic Frontispice (originally for 2 pianos, 5 hands!). Unfortunately, that has not been recorded (but is available on YouTube). In short, I get the feeling that Boulez, regardless of any other considerations, really loved Ravel's music, and this shines through his recordings.

I must confess I was rather disappointed by the Martinon cycle, which I found "mushy" (for lack of a better term). An interesting , antithetical approach to that of Boulez, but very satisfying IMO, is that of Manuel Rosenthal (but with 1950s vintage sound and almost impossible to find these days). I should listen to the Cluytens (which I have in the big Erato box of that conductor's recordings, but haven't approached so far).

There's no question that Boulez does an amazing job in the song cycles and with Ravel's music in general. I'm not too big of a fan of Ravel's purely orchestral works these days preferring his concerti, (the afore mentioned) song cycles, the operas, the solo piano music (!), and chamber works.

vers la flamme

Quote from: ritter on January 16, 2020, 06:02:55 AM
I wholeheartedly recommend the first Boulez traversal (i.e., the CBS / Sony recordings). The fact that this was my introduction to this music may make me a bit partial, but in any case the clarity of these performances is exemplary, and the set in its most recent incarnation (pictured below) is quite comprehensive, as it includes some smaller, lesser works not available elsewhere, and is nicely complemented with an outstanding disc of Ravel songs (with e.g. Jessye Norman unparalleled in the Chansons madécasses, and Jill Gomez ravishing in the Trois poèmes de Stéphane Mallarmé). FWIW, in an interview I read many years ago I remember Krystian Zimerman referring to Boulez's NYPO Daphnis et Chloé as "the most successful orchestral recording he had ever heard" (or something to that effect). I personally prefer these earlier recordings to the lusher DG remakes (great as those are, of course).

[asin]B0129YC7L4[/asin]
Boulez never recorded the Piano Concerto in G for Columbia, but the recording with Philippe Entremont conducted by Ormandy (which complemented the same pianist's rendition of the Concerto for the Left Hand under Boulez) is included in this set. In any case, the Concerto for the Left Hand is the one exception where the later DG recording with Zimerman is (vastly) superior to the earlier version, and is actually for many the reference recording of the work. An even later version of both concertos with Pierre-Laurent Aimard is not as convincing, in my view.

I believe that Boulez's relation to Ravel is an interesting one; he wouldn't mention that composer's name when referring to the "giants" of 20th century music (essentially, in his view, the three Viennese, plus Stravinsky, Bartók and Debussy), but I also sense a close affinity between Boulez the conductor and Ravel's compositions, and his famous "precision" suits these works very well, bringing to the forefront all the marvels of the orchestration. Interestingly, the only published arrangement by Boulez of a work by another composer is his orchestration of the enigmatic Frontispice (originally for 2 pianos, 5 hands!). Unfortunately, that has not been recorded (but is available on YouTube). In short, I get the feeling that Boulez, regardless of any other considerations, really loved Ravel's music, and this shines through his recordings.

I must confess I was rather disappointed by the Martinon cycle, which I found "mushy" (for lack of a better term). An interesting , antithetical approach to that of Boulez, but very satisfying IMO, is that of Manuel Rosenthal (but with 1950s vintage sound and almost impossible to find these days). I should listen to the Cluytens (which I have in the big Erato box of that conductor's recordings, but haven't approached so far).

I'll have to get this. Heather Harper singing Shéhérazade sounds beautiful. Though I already have the single disc with Entremont playing the piano concerti! The Entremont/Ormandy/Philadelphia is my favorite recording of the G major concerto.

Madiel

#295
Doing some brief sampling. Starting with Cluytens because I wondered if recordings from the early 1960s would work for my ears, it's kind of a line-ball period for me. And the impressions I'm getting are a little variable, too...

To be honest I'd prefer something a little later I think.

Martinon sounds a little more promising.

Ozawa sounds pretty gorgeous.

Very initial impressions only, whizzing through samples that iTunes can give me.
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Ratliff

I give the Boulez/Columbia (Sony) recordings my highest recommendation, with the reservation that Ravel Orchestral music is not that important to me. It is in chamber music and solo piano music where Ravel's genius really shines, in my opinion.

The Boulez/Columbia (Sony) recordings of Debussy are really essential. The best in the catalog, I'd say.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Madiel on January 16, 2020, 06:15:15 PM
Doing some brief sampling. Starting with Cluytens because I wondered if recordings from the early 1960s would work for my ears, it's kind of a line-ball period for me. And the impressions I'm getting are a little variable, too...

To be honest I'd prefer something a little later I think.

Martinon sounds a little more promising.

Ozawa sounds pretty gorgeous.

Very initial impressions only, whizzing through samples that iTunes can give me.

Ozawa is very good in Ravel's orchestral music. You can't really go wrong with Boulez, Martinon, or Ozawa.

Ratliff

Quote from: Madiel on January 16, 2020, 06:15:15 PM
Doing some brief sampling. Starting with Cluytens because I wondered if recordings from the early 1960s would work for my ears, it's kind of a line-ball period for me. And the impressions I'm getting are a little variable, too...

To be honest I'd prefer something a little later I think.

Martinon sounds a little more promising.

Ozawa sounds pretty gorgeous.

Very initial impressions only, whizzing through samples that iTunes can give me.

Don't count out Ansermet, old recordings but Decca made great recordings in Victoria Hall. For more modern recordings there is of course Dutoit/Montreal. I like Armin Jordan's recordings on Erato with Lausanne and the Suisse Romande.

Madiel

#299
Mixed feelings about Boulez/Columbia samples...

Some things sound good, and some things sound rather wooden. Menuet Antique sounded seriously heavy-handed for example. The prospective bonus of songs got off to a bad impression with Jill Gomez, though I already have the Mallarme poems. But do not like her voice. The other singers are more appealing.

Dutoit is about what I expected, partly from the 1 album out of 4 that I already know. Lush, round... not actually sure it's better than Ozawa sonically. Ozawa unfortunately didn't record the Sheherazade overture which is one of the things I'd quite like to have.

Abbado is sounding quite nice, somewhat middle of the road in sound, neither super-lush nor dry. And some rather appealing performances.

Two more sets I plan to sample at the moment before my brain gives out.




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