Ravel's Rotunda

[Mirror Image]

Ozawa I agree is very good. When I stopped last time, I was partway through Dutoit. He often struck me as a little bit too slick.

I can't remember which Boulez is earlier - Sony or DG? I'm yet to try the DG.

Boulez's earlier Ravel on Sony is my favorite. I agree with you about Dutoit, although I still rate his Daphnis et Chloé quite highly.

[Madiel]

Boulez's earlier Ravel on Sony is my favorite. I agree with you about Dutoit, although I still rate his Daphnis et Chloé quite highly.

Yes I  have the Daphnis already, Dutoit's style works there.

I'm afraid I didn't like Boulez on Sony. I can't tell you precisely why because my notes aren't that detailed, but I just wasn't responding to the performances I tried. I do recall seeing that some people absolutely love them and some don't. *shrug* There's an option for everyone.

[Mirror Image]

Yes I  have the Daphnis already, Dutoit's style works there.

I'm afraid I didn't like Boulez on Sony. I can't tell you precisely why because my notes aren't that detailed, but I just wasn't responding to the performances I tried. I do recall seeing that some people absolutely love them and some don't. *shrug* There's an option for everyone.

I'm a huge fan of Boulez (both composer and conductor), so I really shouldn't let my bias affect my own judgment of his performances, but he's completely at home in Debussy, Ravel, the Second Viennese School, Bartók, etc. Sounds like you might want to stick with Ozawa.

[Jo498]

"early" (1960s - 1970s) Boulez is preferred by many in  most of the rep he did twice (or more) as it's usually more "modernist", edgier. But the sound quality is usually not as good as the later DG and some pieces might appear a little "dry". I cannot compared in the case of Ravel (as I have only the early ones here) but for some other pieces, like Bartok and Stravinsky I have some of his earlier and some of the later ones. Most listeners would probably agree that in his "home ground" as the composers just mentioned by mirror image, any Boulez is worth at least a try.

[Mirror Image]

"early" (1960s - 1970s) Boulez is preferred by many in  most of the rep he did twice (or more) as it's usually more "modernist", edgier. But the sound quality is usually not as good as the later DG and some pieces might appear a little "dry". I cannot compared in the case of Ravel (as I have only the early ones here) but for some other pieces, like Bartok and Stravinsky I have some of his earlier and some of the later ones. Most listeners would probably agree that in his "home ground" as the composers just mentioned by mirror image, any Boulez is worth at least a try.

I own the newer remastered set of Boulez's Ravel on Sony and think the sound quality is really good. Outstanding? No, but there's a good bit of warmth here, which makes it even more inviting.

[vandermolen]

I own the newer remastered set of Boulez's Ravel on Sony and think the sound quality is really good. Outstanding? No, but there's a good bit of warmth here, which makes it even more inviting.

Good to see you posting again John - I've missed your contributions. I've always thought that Boulez was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel.

[Mirror Image]

Good to see you posting again John - I've missed your contributions. I've always thought that Boulez was a great conductor of Debussy and Ravel.

Thanks a lot, Jeffrey. Yes, indeed. Boulez is fantastic and I know his own music isn't your cup of tea, but I can't believe I've found myself so taken with it considering if you asked me to even listen any of his own music 7-8 years ago, I would've laughed at the idea.

[Mirror Image]

Happy 146th Birthday, Monsieur Ravel!

[Artem]

Oh, nice. Didn't know about that. I've really gotten into Ravel's music during the past year or so.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, nice. Didn't know about that. I've really gotten into Ravel's music during the past year or so.

Fantastic to read! What have you heard that have caught your ears thus far? Any particular favorites? Any works that have been a bit difficult for you to appreciate?

[Artem]

Ma Mere l'oye, Bolero, Le Tombeau, Pavane are my favourite orchestral pieces. I love Piano Trio and various solo piano pieces. Not the biggest fan of the Spanish pieces.

[Mirror Image]

Ma Mere l'oye, Bolero, Le Tombeau, Pavane are my favourite orchestral pieces. I love Piano Trio and various solo piano pieces. Not the biggest fan of the Spanish pieces.

Ah, well you see I love the Spanish works as they do something a bit different and they often sound like Spanish music filtered through that Ravelian lens that we all know. The Piano Trio is a masterpiece without a doubt. Le Tombeau de Couperin is remarkable, especially the original solo piano work, which what I listen to most these days. My favorite work, if pushed into a corner, would be Miroirs. I think this work encapsulates everything that is remarkable about the composer. Even when he was writing for solo piano, the whole piano was treated like an orchestra of sorts. I should revisit that 'Top 5 Favorite Ravel Works' thread and post an updated list. I mean a 'Top 5' list could change day-by-day for me, especially since I adore this composer's music.

[springrite]

Ah, well you see I love the Spanish works as they do something a bit different and they often sound like Spanish music filtered through that Ravelian lens that we all know.

Some of the most famous "Spanish" works are by non-Spanish composers (and not necessarily authentically Spanish):

Rhapsody Espagnol
Carmen
Espana
Capriccio Espagnol
...

[Mirror Image]

Some of the most famous "Spanish" works are by non-Spanish composers (and not necessarily authentically Spanish):

Rhapsody Espagnol
Carmen
Espana
Capriccio Espagnol
...

That's true and I'm sure there many more.

[springrite]

That's true and I'm sure there many more.

Yeah, Symphonie Espagnole for instance.

But back to Ravel, I am in the mood for several versions of Gaspard back to back!

[Artem]

This was a 2 euro used cd purchase and what a marvellous disk this is. Bolero, Rapsodie, Alborada are revelatory to me. Wonderful sound too. I'm yet to listen to the rest of this disk, but it has already become one of my favourite Ravel disks that I have in my collection.

[vers la flamme]

This was a 2 euro used cd purchase and what a marvellous disk this is. Bolero, Rapsodie, Alborada are revelatory to me. Wonderful sound too. I'm yet to listen to the rest of this disk, but it has already become one of my favourite Ravel disks that I have in my collection.

Looks awesome! I have several recordings of Ravel's orchestral music, but there is something special about the Ormandy/Philadelphia sound, that I think would be perfect for this music.

[Brian]

Yes, that says "premiere recording of original ballets" for Mother Goose and Boléro! But the rest of the release completely fails to deliver on details. The back cover and booklet say "premiere recording of this edition." Mother Goose's copyright listing says " © 2021 XXI Music Publishing, Ravel Edition, Volume VII" and we also see "© 2008 Breitkopf & Härtel, Wiesbaden (La Valse, Boléro)." It also confusingly assigns copyright for Valses nobles et sentimentales to....conductor John Wilson?? This appears to be a typo as none of the press materials mention Valses being at all modified.

The booklet essay itself merely says the following (about Boléro, NOT Valses):
"For this recording John Wilson has meticulously restored many details of the score which have become lost through careless reading of Ravel's intentions and through the transformation of the ballet score into a popular concert piece."

The Ravel Edition official website is in French but from what I can tell, mostly gives details of its own success (listing which conductors and pianists have used it) rather than actually explaining differences.

So I decided to do the only thing I can: listen to it. Via streaming, I tried these "world premiere recordings."

They sound the same.

In Mother Goose, I noticed the one and only difference that the tam-tam or gong is very different in sound from usual. Everything else audible at a mid-level computer speaker volume was the same.

In Bolero, admittedly I do not have the piece memorized as I do Mother Goose, and do not perfectly remember which instruments play in which order, but as far as I could tell, there was no difference of even one note. By the way, Wilson's timing is 14:42. I like a faster Bolero and I liked this one, but this is NOT, contrary to the booklet, a "meticulous restoring" of something "lost through careless reading of Ravel's intentions." Ravel preferred a slower Bolero; his recording is 15:50, he said in interviews he wanted it to be about 17', and he warned conductors against ever increasing the tempo as things get louder. In other words, the tempo here is...well, a careless reading of Ravel's intentions.

Releases like this would be justified for saying something like "new, corrected edition of the score." But proclaiming this to be a "world premiere recording" and the "original", without providing a single word of justification, is ridiculous and deplorable.

EDIT/UPDATE: Presto Classical has an article up explaining the biggest differences in Bolero, which I did not catch. 1. There are two snare drummers who alternate, rather than one who must slog the whole way through. 2. There are new triangle and castanets parts near the end.

[Madiel]

If you couldn't hear the differences, they aren't that significant.

I would have thought that Bolero would rank as one of the pieces least likely to have been accidentally altered.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, that says "premiere recording of original ballets" for Mother Goose and Boléro! But the rest of the release completely fails to deliver on details. The back cover and booklet say "premiere recording of this edition." Mother Goose's copyright listing says " © 2021 XXI Music Publishing, Ravel Edition, Volume VII" and we also see "© 2008 Breitkopf & Härtel, Wiesbaden (La Valse, Boléro)." It also confusingly assigns copyright for Valses nobles et sentimentales to....conductor John Wilson?? This appears to be a typo as none of the press materials mention Valses being at all modified.

The booklet essay itself merely says the following (about Boléro, NOT Valses):
"For this recording John Wilson has meticulously restored many details of the score which have become lost through careless reading of Ravel's intentions and through the transformation of the ballet score into a popular concert piece."

The Ravel Edition official website is in French but from what I can tell, mostly gives details of its own success (listing which conductors and pianists have used it) rather than actually explaining differences.

So I decided to do the only thing I can: listen to it. Via streaming, I tried these "world premiere recordings."

They sound the same.

In Mother Goose, I noticed the one and only difference that the tam-tam or gong is very different in sound from usual. Everything else audible at a mid-level computer speaker volume was the same.

In Bolero, admittedly I do not have the piece memorized as I do Mother Goose, and do not perfectly remember which instruments play in which order, but as far as I could tell, there was no difference of even one note. By the way, Wilson's timing is 14:42. I like a faster Bolero and I liked this one, but this is NOT, contrary to the booklet, a "meticulous restoring" of something "lost through careless reading of Ravel's intentions." Ravel preferred a slower Bolero; his recording is 15:50, he said in interviews he wanted it to be about 17', and he warned conductors against ever increasing the tempo as things get louder. In other words, the tempo here is...well, a careless reading of Ravel's intentions.

Releases like this would be justified for saying something like "new, corrected edition of the score." But proclaiming this to be a "world premiere recording" and the "original", without providing a single word of justification, is ridiculous and deplorable.

EDIT/UPDATE: Presto Classical has an article up explaining the biggest differences in Bolero, which I did not catch. 1. There are two snare drummers who alternate, rather than one who must slog the whole way through. 2. There are new triangle and castanets parts near the end.

If only John Wilson was an inspired conductor, but too often, for me, he seems to miss the mark. His Korngold recordings are a case in point.

I can't imagine his Ravel being any better than Boulez or Dutoit.