Ravel's Rotunda

[Mandryka]

Anyone listened to the Wilson Daphnis and Chloe? Is it interesting?

[Brian]

Anyone listened to the Wilson Daphnis and Chloe? Is it interesting?

Not really unfortunately. I thought that his choices as a conductor were so many and so strong that it was nearly impossible to tell how the score itself had been "corrected" and restored. Since a "HIP" performance is available in the form of Pierre Monteux, who conducted the premiere, I couldn't tell what Wilson was adding to our historical knowledge of the work. The soundstage also made the orchestra seem somewhat diffuse, like you could hear the silence between the players, if that makes more than poetical sense.

[Crudblud]

Anyone listened to the Wilson Daphnis and Chloe? Is it interesting?

I think there is some interest in the orchestral balance, whether Wilson's own emphases or simply the result of the microphone set-up. It brings to the fore orchestration details which I haven't heard elsewhere, but I also think this can make the orchestra appear less like a single organism than it does in other Daphnis recordings.

I was going to talk about Wilson's tempo choices, but I can't determine if they're "bad" or if I'm just used to hearing certain sections played slower or faster. I'm certain that I think some sections are rushed, and that he uses a kind of stock ritardando as a segue far too often.

[Mandryka]

Thanks gentlemen, I'll stay with Abbado!

[Roasted Swan]

I think there is some interest in the orchestral balance, whether Wilson's own emphases or simply the result of the microphone set-up. It brings to the fore orchestration details which I haven't heard elsewhere, but I also think this can make the orchestra appear less like a single organism than it does in other Daphnis recordings.

I was going to talk about Wilson's tempo choices, but I can't determine if they're "bad" or if I'm just used to hearing certain sections played slower or faster. I'm certain that I think some sections are rushed, and that he uses a kind of stock ritardando as a segue far too often.

to the bolded - a very valid comment I think.  Not just as it pertains to this piece/this performance but more generally.  "Instrumental Detail" in recordings is much lauded often as a measure of quality however this in turn leads to the old debate about studio spotlighting vs. "concert hall" natural balance.  Daphnis is a work which I think benefits more from a natural balance rather than spotlit detail.  Passages like the famous sunrise are musical impressionism with washes of sound rather than microscopic resolved detail.

[Spotted Horses]

to the bolded - a very valid comment I think.  Not just as it pertains to this piece/this performance but more generally.  "Instrumental Detail" in recordings is much lauded often as a measure of quality however this in turn leads to the old debate about studio spotlighting vs. "concert hall" natural balance.  Daphnis is a work which I think benefits more from a natural balance rather than spotlit detail.  Passages like the famous sunrise are musical impressionism with washes of sound rather than microscopic resolved detail.

I don't disagree with the general point, but I don't think "orchestral detail" is always associated with spotlighting. I often find a lot of orchestral detail in the old Mercury Living Presence recordings, and they had a strictly defined technique using three microphones.

[Roasted Swan]

I don't disagree with the general point, but I don't think "orchestral detail" is always associated with spotlighting. I often find a lot of orchestral detail in the old Mercury Living Presence recordings, and they had a strictly defined technique using three microphones.

that's very true - I suspect as a result of more careful 'live' balancing by the conductor/players rather than leaving it to the engineer/produce to sort!  Of course, since the days of early stereo multi-miking and exaggeration of the stereo sound stage was used to "show off" the new tech.  These days multi tracking is used to create the illusion of natural sound.  Any recording - except a literal one-take of a concert (very rare) is top some degree an illusion.  I think really carefully handled minimal miking still produces some of the best results

[Mandryka]

I'm listening now to Petitregard's Daphnis et Chloe. I rather like it, because it's humble, a sort of simple direct approach - not glamourised or Hollywoodised or smoothed out or melodramaticised or transformed into something deep and mysterious. The orchestra may not be as good as the BPO but they're not bland, lots of colour. I've got very positive feelings about it.

[AnotherSpin]

I'm listening now to Petitregard's Daphnis et Chloe. I rather like it, because it's humble, a sort of simple direct approach - not glamourised or Hollywoodised or smoothed out or melodramaticised or transformed into something deep and mysterious. The orchestra may not be as good as the BPO but they're not bland, lots of colour. I've got very positive feelings about it.

Petitgirard?

[Mandryka]

Petitgirard?

Ah oui, c'est cela,  un petit regard sur Petitgirard.

[Der einsame Einsiedler]

I still believe Dutoit's Daphnis with Montréal on Decca is the one to beat.

[Peter Power Pop]

I still believe Dutoit's Daphnis with Montréal on Decca is the one to beat.

I agree.

[Daverz]

I still believe Dutoit's Daphnis with Montréal on Decca is the one to beat.

Among digital recordings I'd also add Boulez/Berlin.  And going back to "historical"* analog stereo, Monteux.


* Always OK to call something historical if it's older than I am.

[Mandryka]

Among digital recordings I'd also add Boulez/Berlin. 

I think Boulez Berlin is magnificent - aristocratic, beautiful, sometimes orgasmic, sometimes really savage. Never a moment of vulgar ostentatiousness. For me this is topmost tier Daphnis.

I saw Dutoit do it with the Montreal orchestra in the late 80s/early 90s, without dance. I'd love to see it danced.

[Roasted Swan]

I think Boulez Berlin is magnificent - aristocratic, beautiful, sometimes orgasmic, sometimes really savage. Never a moment of vulgar ostentatiousness. For me this is topmost tier Daphnis.

I saw Dutoit do it with the Montreal orchestra in the late 80s/early 90s, without dance. I'd love to see it danced.

As a Christmas present we got a pair of tickets to see this concert/staging in April;

https://lpo.org.uk/event/daphnis-and-chloe/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkJO8BhCGARIsAMkswyiPZjKv_oK_B-xQQoAua5ABu0BL7aG8nl-O948Dd58sePrBg_beboUaAvK3EALw_wcB

I'm interested to see if it "works" since I don't think it is trying to follow the ballet's narrative but rather is a kind of cirque de soleil type experience set to Daphnis.......

[pjme]

Petitgirard?

Laurent Petitgirard may not be France's most original composer/conductor ...but he was (and is) a real busy body writing operas, large scale concertos, ballets and conducting a bit all over the world.... trying to be as French as possible, be it with orchestras in Ljubliana, Korea, Monte Carlo or Poland.
Possibly he saved the Orchestre Colonne from disappearing...
His Daphnis et Chloé with Bordeaux forces is indeed excellent!

He is now   Perpetual Secretary of the "Académie des Beaux-Arts"....
 

[Mandryka]

As a Christmas present we got a pair of tickets to see this concert/staging in April;

https://lpo.org.uk/event/daphnis-and-chloe/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkJO8BhCGARIsAMkswyiPZjKv_oK_B-xQQoAua5ABu0BL7aG8nl-O948Dd58sePrBg_beboUaAvK3EALw_wcB

I'm interested to see if it "works" since I don't think it is trying to follow the ballet's narrative but rather is a kind of cirque de soleil type experience set to Daphnis.......

I'm very very tempted to treat myself to a ticket -  une petite gâterie - as the actress said to the bishop.

[AnotherSpin]

Laurent Petitgirard may not be France's most original composer/conductor ...but he was (and is) a real busy body writing operas, large scale concertos, ballets and conducting a bit all over the world.... trying to be as French as possible, be it with orchestras in Ljubliana, Korea, Monte Carlo or Poland.
Possibly he saved the Orchestre Colonne from disappearing...
His Daphnis et Chloé with Bordeaux forces is indeed excellent!

Thank you for the details. I knew that @Mandryka meant Petitgirard, and I've listened to this composer/conductor a little.

[Der einsame Einsiedler]

Among digital recordings I'd also add Boulez/Berlin.  And going back to "historical"* analog stereo, Monteux.


* Always OK to call something historical if it's older than I am.

I actually prefer Boulez's earlier account of Daphnis to his DG remake. Other Daphnis performances I enjoy: Martinon (EMI), Monteux (Decca), Munch (RCA) and Cluytens (EMI). I haven't heard any modern performances (or recorded in the last 20 years or so) that have impressed. The newer recording with John Wilson on Chandos is dreadful, but I generally dislike this conductor's work, so I'm not sure why I thought I would like his take on Daphnis.

I'm going to walk back my previous opinion of not having been impressed with any newer recordings of Daphnis, I actually the François-Xavier Roth recording on Harmonia Mundi quite a bit. In fact, I've been significantly smitten with many of Roth's recordings.

[Mandryka]

Ighelbrecht is streaming here