Egon Wellesz(1885-1974)

Mirror Image · December 20, 2011, 08:59:04 PM

I thought I would revive this thread as Egon Wellesz has been a composer that has flown under my radar for a few years, but tonight I decided to pull the trigger on the CPO set of symphonies. I'm fascinated by this composer for two reasons: 1. he was a student of Schoenberg and 2. his music has been described as caught between Bruckner, Mahler, and Berg. That's a fascinating combination, but I'm not sure how true it is of course as these kinds of descriptions pale so often do not do the music full justice. I've always been interested in 20th Century Austrian composers. I actually prefer them to the Germans. There's something about Vienna that just produces brilliant minds.

Anyway, if I remember, I'll report back once I've received the set and had a chance to listen to some of the music.

Thanks for this thread Collin! I've read everybody's posts and I'm getting excited to hear this music.

J.Z. Herrenberg · December 20, 2011, 11:30:36 PM

I just read my own description of the Wellesz First here, which I have completely forgotten... Time to renew my acquaintance (when I have the time, it'll be a busy day).

Dundonnell · December 21, 2011, 03:35:09 AM

Heavens! It is three long(or short

) years since I wrote that lengthy screed about Wellesz.

How time flies

I wish that I had the time at the moment to write so much about any one composer

vandermolen · December 21, 2011, 11:56:41 AM

A big plug from me for Symphony No 2 'The English' which does not sound at all English but is is a fine, approachable score - very Brucknerian/Mahlerian in places. I'd start with this work.

snyprrr · December 21, 2011, 12:43:30 PM

I just checked some Wellesz out on YouTube. I should have met him earlier (like during my DSCH tenure),... now I'm slightly ambivalent. The Symphonies are nice a brooding; and, I liked the SQs, but they were a bit on the angsty side for me.

Mirror Image · December 21, 2011, 07:55:37 PM

Quote from: vandermolen on December 21, 2011, 11:56:41 AM
A big plug from me for Symphony No 2 'The English' which does not sound at all English but is is a fine, approachable score - very Brucknerian/Mahlerian in places. I'd start with this work.

Cool, thanks Jeffrey. I'll probably listen to this one first then. Kudos!

vandermolen · December 22, 2011, 12:29:16 AM

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 21, 2011, 07:55:37 PM
Cool, thanks Jeffrey. I'll probably listen to this one first then. Kudos!

My pleasure - you'll enjoy it I'm sure.
Jeffrey

springrite · December 24, 2011, 07:54:08 AM

I bought one of the symphonies discs and loved it. Yes, especially the #2 (English)!

Now I have the complete set but have yet to listen to them. This should be remedies next week for sure.

snyprrr · May 16, 2013, 08:15:08 AM

I might be ready for the String Quartets now.

San Antone · February 17, 2014, 06:04:19 PM

A short diversion in the Weinberg thread about Egon Wellesz caused me to go back and listen to his music.

This recording has a good bit of his music for violin (mostly solo), the Suite, Op. 56 (violin and piano) I find especially compelling.

Joanna Madroszkiewicz, violin
Paul Gulda, piano

Surrounding Wellesz, whose music occupies the majority of the disc, are violin sonatas by Haydn and Beethoven. Somewhat odd choices to fill out the disc, but looking on the bright side, they do provide some variety.

San Antone · March 06, 2014, 04:47:32 AM

Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2013, 08:15:08 AM
I might be ready for the String Quartets now.

The only recording I know of contains #3, 4 and 6, Artis - mandatory for anyone interested in Wellesz. They can be heard HERE.

calyptorhynchus · June 16, 2014, 07:18:38 PM

I've been listening to the nine symphonies of Wellesz and I have been having a different reaction to other posters at this site.

The story I got before I listened from reading here and even from reading the CPO disks sleeve notes was that Wellesz wrote 4 or 5 symphonies that were in the Brucknerian mould, and then in his last symphonies went atonal and 12 note.

When I listened to the first 4 symphonies I found them very strange, they are not in the least Brucknerian, despite a few Brucknerian gestures and the obvious references to Bruckner's 2nd and 3rd Symphonies in No.3. I thought, if anything, that these symphonies harked back to an earlier Viennese period, although the influence of C20 neo-classicism was evident: Schubert meets Hindemidt, as you might say. There was none of the slow organic growth you get in the Bruckner symphonies.

I found them very well put together and easy to listen to, and enjoyable, but not particularly emotional. Sometimes I felt that they were a touch on the emotionally desiccated side.

When I got to the symphonies 5-9 I couldn't believe that these were atonal/12 note works. They didn't sound anything like avant garde music, they sounded quite a lot like the first 4 symphonies only a bit more crunchy and with fewer tunes.

I actually liked the symphonies 5-9 much more, here march rhythms, growling brass, sarcastic scherzi and intense string cantilenas come to the fore. By the time Wellesz gets to No.9 he has reached a kind of expressionist angst that really communicates. The Violin Concerto, which I have also heard, also has this expressiveness. I'll be listening to the later symphonies more than the earlier ones I think.

calyptorhynchus · March 30, 2017, 04:16:04 PM

Just been listening to Wellesz' symphonies again and I have realised why I had the reaction to them I did.

Symphonies 1-4 are tonal, but they are uniquely non-contrapuntal. What you get is just a melody line with a non functioning bass, and very occasionally the odd bit of counterpoint or a perfunctory fugue. It's very strange, like listening to one strand of an actual symphony, not the whole. And it's disconcerting for someone like me me who agrees with Havergal Brian that 'good counterpoint is good composition', and it's the reason why I prefer the non-tonal symphonies 5-9 where at least the melodic line isn't so predictable or annoying.

I suppose that Wellesz' career as an academic specialising in Byzantine chant predisposed him to monody.

Maestro267 · January 10, 2022, 08:43:15 AM

Picked up the CPO set of the 9 symphonies today.

Any favourites among these for you?

Spotted Horses · January 10, 2022, 09:07:42 AM

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on March 30, 2017, 04:16:04 PM
Just been listening to Wellesz' symphonies again and I have realised why I had the reaction to them I did.

Symphonies 1-4 are tonal, but they are uniquely non-contrapuntal. What you get is just a melody line with a non functioning bass, and very occasionally the odd bit of counterpoint or a perfunctory fugue. It's very strange, like listening to one strand of an actual symphony, not the whole. And it's disconcerting for someone like me me who agrees with Havergal Brian that 'good counterpoint is good composition', and it's the reason why I prefer the non-tonal symphonies 5-9 where at least the melodic line isn't so predictable or annoying.

I suppose that Wellesz' career as an academic specialising in Byzantine chant predisposed him to monody.

This is an old post, but I would say there is absolutely nothing in this post that I can agree with. And really, he's no good because he doesn't follow Havergal Brian's dictum? That's like saying Steven Spielberg is a hack because he never studied the works of Ed Wood.

Quote from: Maestro267 on January 10, 2022, 08:43:15 AM
Picked up the CPO set of the 9 symphonies today.

Any favourites among these for you?

I started listening to the Wellesz set about 2 years ago, and got up to the fifth symphony before I got distracted. My listening notes indicate enthusiastic enjoyment of all of the symphonies I listened to. I seemed to have particularly appreciated the fifth, in which Wellesz begins using serial techniques.

Maestro267 · January 10, 2022, 12:53:14 PM

Listened to 2, 3, 6 and 8 today. The early symphonies I can hear the Bruckner link with blocks of sound and whatnot, but there's still colour and interest there with some unusual chord progressions in the chorales and the use of percussion which Bruckner avoided like the plague. Very melodic and pleasant listens. Looking forward to the rest, probably tomorrow.

Symphonic Addict · January 10, 2022, 01:55:26 PM

Wise choice that purchase. His 9 symphonies show an interesting development, where each is different to another.

springrite · January 10, 2022, 04:35:48 PM

Quote from: Maestro267 on January 10, 2022, 08:43:15 AM
Picked up the CPO set of the 9 symphonies today.

Any favourites among these for you?

I have the entire set. My personal favorites are 2, followed by 5. But it really depends on your taste and I am sure reactions from every listener will be different.

Spotted Horses · January 10, 2022, 06:43:32 PM

Quote from: Maestro267 on January 10, 2022, 12:53:14 PM
Listened to 2, 3, 6 and 8 today. The early symphonies I can hear the Bruckner link with blocks of sound and whatnot, but there's still colour and interest there with some unusual chord progressions in the chorales and the use of percussion which Bruckner avoided like the plague. Very melodic and pleasant listens. Looking forward to the rest, probably tomorrow.

You are listening to all nine symphonies in two days? Wow. I spent two or three days digesting each individual symphony!

Maestro267 · January 11, 2022, 12:48:59 AM

I go through each of them once before I return to them. Same way I deal with most symphony cycles.