Dutilleux's Dark Dominion

[snyprrr]

Technically, my fav string quartet...get the Julliard (w/ Deb-Rav). Sound and playing is more sumptous. Yes, this is really my fav quartet this side of the noisy stuff.  Every trick is used towards musical ends, and not just plink-plonk for the sake of.  Please! find me a modern quartet more of everything than this one!  Ligeti No.2 kind of comes close, but the whole "point" is different (frankly, forget I mentioned it).  I mean, the mere fact that he wrote only one, and in maturity, shows how he put EVERYTHING in there...there is really no need for No.2...and it's only 18min, ahhh.....anyhow, I'm doting....

Also!- Maurice Ohana seems to inhabit the same noctural sound world. His post-Messiaen quartets come off a lot more "daytime", but the same Mediterrainean temperment (plus North Africa) dominates.  By no means as classic as "ansni la nuit".

I've got all the important stuff, and yea, except for the hair, there's no faulting Dutilleux!  And the Erato with the GREAT Honegger No.4!!!

but back to the quartet,haha 0:)...

[karlhenning]

I really need to hear more by this composer - I adore the cello and violin concertos, as well as the Trois Strophes, and am also very keen on the Symphony no.1 and Timbres, Espace, Mouvement. Pondering whether to get the complete orchestral works set...

Any update, Guido?

[Guido]

The String Quartet is a revelation - magical from start to finish and is surely one of the finest works in the genre from the last century - up there with Janacek, Szymanowski, Bartok et al.

[karlhenning]

Nice to see the Christmas spirit in such full flower.

[snyprrr]

The String Quartet is a revalation - magical from start to finish and is surely one of the finest works in the genre from the last century - up there with Janacek, Szymanowski, Bartok et al.

Haha, I like how you answer later,... much, much later, haha !



So, did you just hear the SQ just for the first time,... and by whom? I'll tell you, this is my specialty, and the Julliard/Sony are the one to beat, both sonically, and technically,... not to mention the Julliard's unbeatable poetry. They beat the Arditti, IMO. Many others are hamstrung by terribly dry acoustics, or rough recordings, that totally diminish the mystery of the piece. Will anyone argue the Julliard's dominance here? I certainly haven't heard the Peterson, and I don't know if the Hagen have done it, but, either way, that Sony disc is a cornerstone in the Library.

I do believe that if anyone asked me, I would say this is my single favorite offering. If anyone asked me what kind of music I like, I would point to it. I think it's absolutely in the Canon. To me, it is "almost" the perfect amalgam of music and sounds (MY SQ would of course have to be better,... somehow, haha). No, it's perfect. I mean, my lips begin to make pfft sounds because my mouth can't utter the words! It truly stands alone, in D's work itself, and in SQ literature, as, I think, one of the most clearly "poetic" works ever penned, a refinement of a refinement (Webern/Boulez) of a refinement (Faure). Sciarrino and Lachenmann, IMO, could learn something about the intergration of music and sound from here; and, I'm not saying that D explored any of those twos' extended techniques, but, in this SQ, the possibilities of the limits dial in clear for me.

It was written in 1976, almost 40 years ago!, and yet, it is the epitome of High Modernism (perhaps along with Xenakis' Tetras (1983), and Ligeti No2 from the earlier decade (1968)). It's an Arditti bread n butter SQ.

Thus,... the night...

[Guido]

Haha, I like how you answer later,... much, much later, haha !



So, did you just hear the SQ just for the first time,... and by whom? I'll tell you, this is my specialty, and the Julliard/Sony are the one to beat, both sonically, and technically,... not to mention the Julliard's unbeatable poetry. They beat the Arditti, IMO. Many others are hamstrung by terribly dry acoustics, or rough recordings, that totally diminish the mystery of the piece. Will anyone argue the Julliard's dominance here? I certainly haven't heard the Peterson, and I don't know if the Hagen have done it, but, either way, that Sony disc is a cornerstone in the Library.

I do believe that if anyone asked me, I would say this is my single favorite offering. If anyone asked me what kind of music I like, I would point to it. I think it's absolutely in the Canon. To me, it is "almost" the perfect amalgam of music and sounds (MY SQ would of course have to be better,... somehow, haha). No, it's perfect. I mean, my lips begin to make pfft sounds because my mouth can't utter the words! It truly stands alone, in D's work itself, and in SQ literature, as, I think, one of the most clearly "poetic" works ever penned, a refinement of a refinement (Webern/Boulez) of a refinement (Faure). Sciarrino and Lachenmann, IMO, could learn something about the intergration of music and sound from here; and, I'm not saying that D explored any of those twos' extended techniques, but, in this SQ, the possibilities of the limits dial in clear for me.

It was written in 1976, almost 40 years ago!, and yet, it is the epitome of High Modernism (perhaps along with Xenakis' Tetras (1983), and Ligeti No2 from the earlier decade (1968)). It's an Arditti bread n butter SQ.

Thus,... the night...

I heard it before, but have just listened to it again recently - it's just wonderful in every way as you say. It reminded me of all the string quartets I mentioned in the post - the Janacekian poetry ad personalness and personality, the Szymanowskian beauty and ruggedness, the Bartokian sense of exploration and sonority. You are right to compare it to Fauré in its refinement. I don't think he's self conciously exploring 'special effects' and whistles and bangs here - it was 1976 after all, and quite a while after all that had been explored to the absolute extremes during the 60s... here the extended techniques are just another expressive pallette he can draw upon - Dutilleux is never bounded by any one school or rational - he uses elements from all his influences freely and continously.

I have the Belcea which I think is just peachy, though I haven't heard others.

A recent quartet that I think is almost as good and is clearly influenced by the Dutilleux is Adés Arcadiana. Also wonderful. Ades is similar to Dutilleux in his disavowel of one single harmonic pallette and instead inhabits a realms somewhere between, tonality and atonality, expressionism and impressionism, the severe and the ravishing. He's even said in an interview "I don't know what people are talking about when they say tonality and atonality".

I really want to hear Le temps de l'horloge his most recent work for Renée Fleming (soprano and orchestra), I can't imagine a more ravishing match.

[Guido]

I also want to hear his Correspondances and soprano and orchestra for that matter.

What else is there by Dutilleux that hasn't been recorded? Here's his complete list of works from Wikipedia:

Orchestral

Symphony No. 1 (1951)
Symphony No. 2 Le Double (1959)
Métaboles (1964)
Timbres, Espace, Mouvement ou la Nuit Etoilée (1978)
Mystère de l'Instant (1989)
Slava's Fanfare for spatial ensemble (1997)

Concertante

Cello Concerto Tout un Monde Lointain (1970)
Violin Concerto L'Arbre des Songes (1985)
Nocturne for violin and orchestra Sur le Même Accord (2002)

Chamber/Instrumental

String Quartet Ainsi la Nuit (1976)
Trois Strophes sur le nom de Sacher for solo cello (1976-1982)
Les Citations for oboe, harpsichord, double bass and percussion (1991)

Piano

Piano Sonata (1948)
Tous les Chemins (1961)
Bergerie (1963)
Résonances (1965)
Figures de résonances (1970)
3 Préludes: D'Ombre et de silence, Sur un même accord, Le Jeu des contraires (1973-1988)

Vocal

Deux Sonnets de Jean Cassou, for baritone and piano (1954)
San Francisco Night, for voice and piano (1963)
Hommage à Nadia Boulanger, for soprano, 3 violas, clarinet, percussion and zither (1967)
The Shadows of Time, for 3 children voices and orchestra (1997)
Correspondances, for soprano and orchestra (2003)
Le Temps L'Horloge, for soprano and orchestra (2007-2009)

Ballet

Le Loup (1953)

Arrangements

Choral, cadence et fugato for trombone and symphonic band (1995) (same as the chamber work, orchestrated by Claude Pichaureau)

[snyprrr]

I heard it before, but have just listened to it again recently - it's just wonderful in every way as you say. It reminded me of all the string quartets I mentioned in the post - the Janacekian poetry ad personalness and personality, the Szymanowskian beauty and ruggedness, the Bartokian sense of exploration and sonority. You are right to compare it to Fauré in its refinement. I don't think he's self conciously exploring 'special effects' and whistles and bangs here - it was 1976 after all, and quite a while after all that had been explored to the absolute extremes during the 60s... here the extended techniques are just another expressive pallette he can draw upon - Dutilleux is never bounded by any one school or rational - he uses elements from all his influences freely and continously.

I have the Belcea which I think is just peachy, though I haven't heard others.

A recent quartet that I think is almost as good and is clearly influenced by the Dutilleux is Adés Arcadiana. Also wonderful. Ades is similar to Dutilleux in his disavowel of one single harmonic pallette and instead inhabits a realms somewhere between, tonality and atonality, expressionism and impressionism, the severe and the ravishing. He's even said in an interview "I don't know what people are talking about when they say tonality and atonality".

I really want to hear Le temps de l'horloge his most recent work for Renée Fleming (soprano and orchestra), I can't imagine a more ravishing match.

I was surprised by the Ades. It certainly is one of the nocturnal musings kind of things. Even from the first notes, this piece just wallows in interesting ideas. I'm not so sure I'm supposed to like it as much as I did. Upstart!



I think all the old D has been recorded. Maybe just those that have been composed recently haven't been recorded yet,. I think they forgot the Oboe Sonata (early, before the Piano Sonata, I think).

Also, you might like Ohana.

[bhodges]

Happy Birthday to Henri Dutilleux, who turns 94 today. 

--Bruce

[snyprrr]

D's SQ is one of my all time fav pieces, but when I try to play it for a normal, suddenly I hear it as I imagine they will hear it, and all of a sudden it doesn't sound magical anymore, but, as the normals would say, 'depressing'. I'm just saying I hate it when that happens, when you can see it in their eyes right away, that it's not, Bob Marley, or whatever they're used to, and I take it off. arrgh!!

[MDL]

The first time I ever heard Tout un monde lointain was at a concert in Zagreb in 2002. After 5-10 minutes, the cellist snapped a string and the piece had to be played again from the beginning, but nobody complained. I loved it immediately and even the other half was impressed, liking it much more than the final piece in the concert, Debussy's La Mer, which surprised me.

[UB]

This is the world premiere of the latest version of Le temps l'horloge. It includes a fourth song - Baudelaire's prose-poem, Enivrez-vous - that was not in the original version that was premiered back in 2007.

Although Fleming sings the songs beautifully, over all I prefer Dutilleux's non-vocal music.

[Mirror Image]

I think Dutilleux is a great composer. The only recordings I own are the Tortelier set on Chandos:



I really enjoy this set immensely. Of particular interest for me, were his two symphonies, but I've enjoyed many of his other orchestral works like "The Shadows of Time," "Timbres," and his cello and violin concerti. An interesting composer and a fantastic orchestrator. He's very accessible despite his heavy usage of dissonance without a tonal resolution. Does that make any sense? It made sense when I was typing it.

[Guido]

D's SQ is one of my all time fav pieces, but when I try to play it for a normal, suddenly I hear it as I imagine they will hear it, and all of a sudden it doesn't sound magical anymore, but, as the normals would say, 'depressing'. I'm just saying I hate it when that happens, when you can see it in their eyes right away, that it's not, Bob Marley, or whatever they're used to, and I take it off. arrgh!!

Yes I know exactly the feeling. Hate it too!

A recording of the world premiere of Le Temps l'Horloge is now available for 15 Euros at the site of the Theatre des Champs Elysees. Some people have complained 15 Euros is a lot of money for 15 minutes of music but it is a collector's item and I am glad I was given the opportunity to own a recording of this piece at any price, when, scandalously, no recording of Correspondances has been released yet.

Really want to hear it as Renee is my favourite singer and I'm sure the piece is ravishing... but 15 Euros?!

[lescamil]

15 euros for that is highway robbery, especially because I heard that the piece was broadcast online a while back, and those people got to hear it for free. Anyways, I'm sure some crafty fellows recorded it when it was broadcast anyways.

[Mirror Image]

Thought I would bump this thread back up to the top considering that Dutilleux has been on my mind and I've been listening to his music almost all afternoon. Love his music so much. I'm surprised to see that there aren't that many people familiar with his music. If the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra would play some of his music I would definitely go, but this isn't going to happen since the members who sit on this orchestra's board are a bunch of musical conservatives. 

[Franco]

Dutilleux is still a composer I am getting to know.  These are the recordings I have so far:


Les Citations 'Diptych'
Sur le même accord, nocturne for violin & orchestra
Le Temps l'horloge
Metaboles
San Francisco Night
Timbres, Espace, Mouvement
The Shadows of time
Mystere de l'Instant
3 Strophes sur le nom de Sacher pour violoncelle solo

I cannot say which is my favorite since I have barely listened to each one time, but can say that he is someone who I find immediately interesting and who I will continue to investigate with much anticipation.

[snyprrr]

The Symphonies 1-2

[Mirror Image]

The Symphonies 1-2

His 2nd symphony gets talked about a lot, but I think his 1st is great too. That last movement almost left me breathless when I first heard it.

[SonicMan46]

In reviewing this thread, I've posted just once back in September 2007 - 3 yrs!

In addition to the Chandos 'Orchestral Box', I've added just one disc of this composer to my collection, i.e. solo piano music w/ John Chen on Naxos - giving the disc a repeat listening at the moment as I type.  There is another similar offering on the first page of Amazon w/  Anne Queffélec - would be curious about comparisons and preferences from those who might have heard both of these performances?

Concerning the Chen recording, an excellent review from Fanfare is reprinted HERE - 

Also would appreciate any comments on the 'chamber works' of Dutilleux?