Dutilleux's Dark Dominion

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

the elusive charm of Henri Dutilleux

Thank you "toucan" for that informative (if somewhat opinionated) post.

My problem is simple. I have listened to a number of Dutilleux's works and tried to like him. His critical reputation is very high and this thread overflows with praise for him. Yet somehow my response to him is lukewarm.

Maybe I just don't take to the French aesthetic that privileges coloristic effects over rigorous structural development (I don't much like Debussy and Ravel either). Also, that Holocaust-themed piece he wrote, with the kiddies' voices intoning "Why me?" over and over again, sounded like a sappy exercise in sentimentalism.

Am I just a hopeless philistine or have I not been listening closely enough? (I did think Metaboles was pretty good.) I found the VC on YouTube, so maybe I'll give that a few listens.

[Mirror Image]

the elusive charm of Henri Dutilleux

Thank you "toucan" for that informative (if somewhat opinionated) post.

My problem is simple. I have listened to a number of Dutilleux's works and tried to like him. His critical reputation is very high and this thread overflows with praise for him. Yet somehow my response to him is lukewarm.

Maybe I just don't take to the French aesthetic that privileges coloristic effects over rigorous structural development (I don't much like Debussy and Ravel either). Also, that Holocaust-themed piece he wrote, with the kiddies' voices intoning "Why me?" over and over again, sounded like a sappy exercise in sentimentalism.

Am I just a hopeless philistine or have I not been listening closely enough? (I did think Metaboles was pretty good.) I found the VC on YouTube, so maybe I'll give that a few listens.

If you don't like Debussy or Ravel, then you're just not going to enjoy Dutilleux. So much of his music relies on color rather than structure. Takemitsu is very similar in this regard. Both composers share a lot in common in terms of thinking of colors and textures.

Dutilleux very may well be just not your cup of tea, which is okay. Not everybody likes the same things. Do you own any of his recordings?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

If you don't like Debussy or Ravel, then you're just not going to enjoy Dutilleux. So much of his music relies on color rather than structure.

Well then it might be hopeless...good thing I've got a couple hundred other composers to enjoy 

Do you own any of his recordings?

I have the Chandos disc with the Cello Cto., Metaboles and something else. Every once in a great while I take it out and give it a spin. I also had an Arte Nova disc with The Shadows of Time and one of his symphonies. I got rid of that one.

[Sid]

Since some of Dutilleux' works were inspired by poetry or literature, it's a good idea to read some of the primary sources that they were based on. In the case of the cello concerto, it's the poetry of Baudelaire, for the violin concerto, it's Proust's Rememberance of Things Past. I am quite familiar with the former, as I did an essay on Baudelaire at university (as part of a subject on Orientalism in the arts). I am not familiar with Proust, except what I've read about him on the net and in the liner notes. So it's no surprise that I have a stronger connection with the cello concerto - Dutilleux so expertly brings Baudelaire's poetry to life, but he doesn't literally illustrate it, much is left to the listener to perceive on his/her own terms. Apart from it's dreamy quality, the violin concerto (subtitled 'A Tree of Dreams') hasn't conveyed as much meaning to me, and Proust is much harder to get into than Baudelaire. But in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...

[Mirror Image]

But in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...

I would love to see some of Dutilleux's music performed live, but here in Georgia, United States, it's just so hard to see this kind of music performed. As I stated, my local symphony, the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, very seldom go out of the norm in their programming. They continue to play the old workhorses night after night and I'm just not going to spend my hard earned money on something that's played all the time. If they were play some Villa-Lobos, Rubbra, or Arvo Part I would be down there right now, but alas, this certainly isn't the case.

[karlhenning]

I had the impression (not that this helps viz. Villa-Lobos, Rubbra or Pärt) that Spano has (to the extent that one can, folding new music into a symphony orchestra season) championed living American composers (witness their recording of Michael Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation).

How is that "mission" bearing up in the current environment of financial delicacy?

[Mirror Image]

I had the impression (not that this helps viz. Villa-Lobos, Rubbra or Pärt) that Spano has (to the extent that one can, folding new music into a symphony orchestra season) championed living American composers (witness their recording of Michael Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation).

How is that "mission" bearing up in the current environment of financial delicacy?

I really don't like Spano's conducting all that much. I think there have been some instances where he has really done a good job (i.e. Golijov), but ultimately, he doesn't seem that passionate about the music he conducts or it just sounds as though he's disinterested. I think firing Yoel Levi was one of ASO's biggest mistakes. I own all of Levi's ASO recordings and most of them are great. I own that Spano recording of Gandolfi's Garden of Cosmic Speculation and it's a decent work, but not one that I would listen to very often. Spano's RVW recordings (A Sea Symphony, Symphony No. 5) have been lackluster. It's great that he wants to champion American composers, but the question remains: how is the music? I'm not sure what the financial situation is with the ASO right now, but I think they deserve a better conductor than Spano.

[karlhenning]

. . . It's great that he wants to champion American composers, but the question remains: how is the music?

Sure, but an environment from which musical masterworks springs, is an environment which generally fosters new music.  The beautiful flower is a comparatively small portion of the rose bush.

I think your estimation of the Garden of Cosmic Spec. is fair, BTW

[Guido]

But in any case, the listener can still just treat these works as straight concertos, without the literary allusions, they firmly stand on their own two feet without any programmatic elements...

Yes I was going to say - I heard and loved these pieces long before I read the two authors. I think the cello concerto is the slightly finer work, and trust your judgement in this (i.e. I don't think it's down to the fact that you haven't read Proust). Proust is possibly my favourite writer, but it doesn't make me love the violin concerto any more or less!

[Mirror Image]

Sure, but an environment from which musical masterworks springs, is an environment which generally fosters new music.  The beautiful flower is a comparatively small portion of the rose bush.

I'm not dismissing his decision to conduct new music, I'm just expressing my disappointment of how he continues to ignore the music that has come before this new music.

[karlhenning]

I'm not dismissing his decision to conduct new music, I'm just expressing my disappointment of how he continues to ignore the music that has come before this new music.

Yes . . . but there may only be so much oxygen in the room ; )

[Mirror Image]

Yes . . . but there may only be so much oxygen in the room ; )

Lol...that is true.

[bhodges]

Today (Jan. 22) is Dutilleux's 95th birthday! 

--Bruce

[mahler10th]

Today (Jan. 22) is Dutilleux's 95th birthday! 

--Bruce

His music I have found difficult to follow, but whether I can follow it or not, it makes perfect sense in cerebal dialogue.  Great to hear one of the most interesting voices in music is still alive, I for one like his output very much...but I don't know why.   

[Mirror Image]

His music I have found difficult to follow, but whether I can follow it or not, it makes perfect sense in cerebal dialogue.  Great to hear one of the most interesting voices in music is still alive, I for one like his output very much...but I don't know why.   

Dutilleux seems more interested in harmony and textures than he does melody. His rhythms are out-of-this-world as well. A melody for many listeners is a gateway into a musical work, but, for me, harmonies and rhythms are my gateway in most cases, though I have nothing against a nice striking melody.


Anyway, happy birthday to Dutilleux. I hope his perfectionism can at least produce us one more masterpiece.

[Joaquimhock]

Dutilleux seems more interested in harmony and textures than he does melody. His rhythms are out-of-this-world as well. A melody for many listeners is a gateway into a musical work, but, for me, harmonies and rhythms are my gateway in most cases, though I have nothing against a nice striking melody.


Anyway, happy birthday to Dutilleux. I hope his perfectionism can at least produce us one more masterpiece.

He has been very affected by the recent death of his wife the pianist Geneviève Joy, but according to a recent interview he's working on a new piece for the Festival d'Auvers sur Oise in the north of France.

[Mirror Image]

He has been very affected by the recent death of his wife the pianist Geneviève Joy, but according to a recent interview he's working on a new piece for the Festival d'Auvers sur Oise in the north of France.

I did not know this. I hope we'll all be able to hear this new work. He's such a master.

[RJR]

I was present at the première of Dutilleux's String Quartet 'Ainsi la nuit' in a suburb of Paris on January 6, 1977. It was my last night in Paris before returning to Montréal. It was also my birthday. What a scene it was too. Lots of old folks who had probably been at the Champs Elysée for the first performance of Le Sacre du Printemps and had tirelessly championned contemporary music all their lives. During intermission, after Dutilleux's quartet had just been performed, a voice announced that if anyone wished to meet the composers present they could do so. So I got out of my seat and walked around to the other side and waited for M Dutilleux to finish chatting with someone. In my best French I told him that I loved his music and could I have his autograph.
He leaned over and tapped his wife, Geneviève Joy, on the shoulder and said something to her. She opened up her black purse and pulled out a small card. It turned to be a business card with M and Mme Dutilleux's Ile Saint-Louis written on it. M Dutilleux signed it. Best birthday present ever. It's pasted across the top of one of my Dynaco speakers to this day.
I met M Dutilleux one more time, in Montréal, in 1986, the day after the première of his Violon Concerto, Isaac Stern the soloist. There was a press conference the following day and after that was over I approached M Dutilleux with the card that he had signed for me in 1977. I told him that I had been present for the première of his String Quartet ten years ago. He signed the card again. Later, I wrote him a fan letter. In return he sent me a copy of his autobiography, signed, plus a postcard of an aerial view of his apartment on Ile Saint-Louis.

I first heard of M Dutilleux around 1970 when I bought a copy of Music & Musicians, a British music magazine that I fear no longer exists. There was an article about M Dutilleux's music that also featured an analysis of his ballet, Le Loup. I've been following his career ever since.

Long live Henri Dutilleux!

[bhodges]

What an incredible birthday! Just hearing the premiere of the quartet would have been something all by itself, but then to meet him and get the signed card...how totally great. Then to get to meet him again 9 years later, get the card signed again...

Thanks for that vivid, beautifully written snapshot.

--Bruce

[snyprrr]

great story!