Topic: Max Reger(1873-1916)

[schnittkease]

Excuse me?  Wherever did that idea come from??

Brahms wrote many masterpieces that changing anything about them would have been a disaster.
Monkey with Beethoven's 7th or 9th?  Or the late piano sonatas or late string quartets?  Sacrilege.
Bach's Goldberg Variations?  Mozart's last three symphonies?
Mahler's 'Song of the Earth'??

There are many great pieces of music that are, indeed, perfect.
When the voice of God speaks through gifted people, let us be humbled!

There's a reason why I put "perfect" in quotes - the word is highly subjective. Objective perfection may be defined as not having any flaws/defects. But who defines what a flaw is? Reger's blocky orchestration may be too thick to Person A but perfect to Person B. Person B calls the work perfect because they don't detect any flaws, but Person A obviously doesn't agree. But since Person B thinks it's perfect, does that make it objectively so? No.

When did I say that I wanted to change anything about the pieces you list (or any piece, for that matter)? Objective perfection is unattainable, so there's nothing anyone could do to make them more "perfect." I also don't like the idea of "the voice of God" speaking through people's music... what is that even supposed to mean?

[schnittkease]

I did and still not hearing it. Maybe I am expecting Bachian counterpoint. I also have this:

Maybe I just don't care about Reger's counterpoint?

Why are you looking specifically for counterpoint?

[71 dB]

Why are you looking specifically for counterpoint?

Because Reger is said to be counterpuntal composer. As a matter of fact I listened to the other CD and it has more counterpoint to my ears. I had completely forgotten the disc and how I actually like it. It even reminds me a little bit of Elgar's lesser orchestral works. Now I remember how the chamber music CD "killed" my interest in Reger, but the Op. 132 & Op. 100 disc is nice. 

[vers la flamme]

I did and still not hearing it. Maybe I am expecting Bachian counterpoint. I also have this:

Maybe I just don't care about Reger's counterpoint?

Perhaps, yes. I wouldn't describe it as Bachian counterpoint at all. Maybe closer to Brahms's counterpoint.

[Scion7]

Let us not forget Reger was Johanna Senfter's teacher and mentor.  A "Brahmsian grand daughter" of sorts.

[71 dB]

Perhaps, yes. I wouldn't describe it as Bachian counterpoint at all. Maybe closer to Brahms's counterpoint.

Yes, as I said it reminds me of Elgar's lesser ochestral music such as the Nursery Suite.

[Herman]

You seem to have, on two cds, the four best, or most successful pieces of Reger's oeuvre: the Hiller and Mozart Variations; the Clarinet Quintet and the 4th String Quartet.

And these remind you "of Elgar's lesser music".

I guess to each his own.

[schnittkease]

You seem to have, on two cds, the four best, or most successful pieces of Reger's oeuvre: the Hiller and Mozart Variations; the Clarinet Quintet and the 4th String Quartet.

And these remind you "of Elgar's lesser music".

I guess to each his own.

My favorite is the Bach Variations, and (just for the record) I don't think Elgar wrote anything on that level. I also like Reger's 4th String Quartet, but it's a conscious receding from the harmonic daring of earlier works. I can take or leave the Clarinet Quintet.

[kyjo]

Yes, as I said it reminds me of Elgar's lesser ochestral music such as the Nursery Suite.

Well, that's certainly the first time I've seen Reger and Elgar compared!

[71 dB]

Well, that's certainly the first time I've seen Reger and Elgar compared!

I'm not saying the composition style is same, but I got similar vibes and it wasn't as if it was a 100 % match.

[71 dB]

My favorite is the Bach Variations

Variations and Fugue on a Theme of J.S. Bach, Op 81 ?

[schnittkease]

Variations and Fugue on a Theme of J.S. Bach, Op 81 ?

That's the one.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/QijUP_0yehw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/QijUP_0yehw</a>

[amw]

Reger is a bit bipolar, his more contrapuntal music (e.g. the organ works, or the fugues in the two big variation sets for piano) tends to also be extremely melodramatic whereas some of his other music exists in a state of constant chromatic haze that prevents any real tension from developing (e.g. the violin concerto, which is probably my favourite of his pieces, and will appeal to anyone who likes the Elgar concerto but wishes it had less stuff happening and fewer melodies and less excitement*). Like Szymanowski it's very much an acquired taste. The pieces I'd recommend as introductions to Reger and his style would actually be the four Sonatinas for piano, op. 89—if you don't like them, you probably won't like any of his stuff.

* I do like it better than the Elgar concerto but I have specific manias when it comes to music

[vers la flamme]

I find that the only Reger that has hooked me, so far, is his organ music. I have two of the Naxos discs, vols. 1 & 4 of that series (both random record store finds) and I enjoy returning to them from time to time. His organ music seems to have two moods (@amw, I agree with your bipolar assessment)...: tranquil/meditative/eerie calm and ecstatic/psychedelic/explosive/completely psychotic. I don't often go for organ music, but his is impressive!

[Symphonic Addict]

I also like Reger's 4th String Quartet, but it's a conscious receding from the harmonic daring of earlier works.

I remember that quartet made a strong impression on me. Even the longest one (which lasts more than 50 minutes IIRC) is astonishing and doesn't feel too long.

[71 dB]

That's the one.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/QijUP_0yehw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/QijUP_0yehw</a>

I listened maybe 40 %. Interesting. I need to explore it better when I have time ( =state of mind for it)

[vers la flamme]

Getting more and more into Reger, mostly the organ music, but I listened to this CD yesterday and it finally clicked:



Excellent orchestration. Both of these works are kind of like Brahms's Haydn Variations on steroids, but w/ Reger's original voice. I enjoyed both works but especially the Mozart Variations.

Trying to decide where to next with Reger. Looking at Hamelin's disc of piano works, plus the Järvi and Segerstam discs with the Böcklin Poems, not sure which of the two to go for.

[Jo498]

The Hamelin disc seems very good to me, although I am by no means an expert (I have the piano variations also with Becker and I once heard Peter Serkin in concert with the Bach variations although I could hardly appreciate the piece then in my early 20s). But for these two sets of variations it's basically true what you wrote about the orchestral variations, they are pretty close to Brahms Händel- or Haydn-Variations. I don't know the other discs but the Böcklin suite also seems to me one of the most accessible orchestral Reger that is NOT a variation sequuence.

[vers la flamme]

I ended up ordering the Böcklin Suite on BIS with Leif Segerstam, plus the Hamelin with the Bach & Telemann Variations. I'm really racking up a lot of Reger. I also managed to get 4 volumes of the organ music set for 9 bucks.

[André]

I ended up ordering the Böcklin Suite on BIS with Leif Segerstam, plus the Hamelin with the Bach & Telemann Variations. I'm really racking up a lot of Reger. I also managed to get 4 volumes of the organ music set for 9 bucks.

Nice haul, and good choices all !

..............

Listening to the sonata op 122 and the Suite op 103a for violin and piano. The latter work is made up of 6 pieces that Reger specifically composed in the dual role of standalone recital pieces or of a suite in 6 movements. Reger always had practicality in mind when composing works, in the wake of Haydn and preceding Hindemith in that regard. Very romantic works, played with great feeling by Wallin and Pōntinen.