Max Reger(1873-1916)

[Mandryka]

Well only you could get me to listen to a piece of orchestral music by Reger, Herman. I was glad I did. He looks so young! And the music is lively, full of life.

[Mandryka]

I've heard the whole Hiller Variations now. Anyone who enjoys Brahms should try this.                               

[André]

I've heard the whole Hiller Variations now. Anyone who enjoys Brahms should try this.                               

I listened to the whole video as well. Always interesting to watch as well as hear, especially for works like that where so much depends on the interplay between players and the connection with the conductor. A miscue from the podium and everything falls apart.

[Herman]

I listened to the whole video as well. Always interesting to watch as well as hear, especially for works like that where so much depends on the interplay between players and the connection with the conductor. A miscue from the podium and everything falls apart.

Not sure 'a miscue' would undo the music. Of course the orchestra and Blomstedt know each other well, but these are musicians of the highest caliber and I think they know what they're doing. There are some moments where things go a little too fast for the strings, just a momentary lapse which gets autocorrected.

Incidentally (a propos Mandryka's comment) in my view Reger sounds nothing like Brahms; the shape of his melodies is quite different, I doubt Brahms would have approved of Reger's pervasive chromaticism.

[Mandryka]

Incidentally (a propos Mandryka's comment) in my view Reger sounds nothing like Brahms; the shape of his melodies is quite different, I doubt Brahms would have approved of Reger's pervasive chromaticism.

Don't you think that in this particular piece the chromaticism seems to be less consistently audible, compared with the late chamber pieces? I was surprised myself by that. I can hear Brahms in most of the music.

[Herman]

Maybe. Today I listened to the Fifth string quartet, and thought, why even say it's in F sharp minor when there are so many accidentals, right from the get go?

Perhaps it's a little less extreme in the Hiller Vars, but it's there allright. So there is the robust 9th variation, Allegro con spirito, but there is a Trio (starting at 23:58 in the video) that is heavily chromatic. So maybe it is part of the character of the Variations, this competition between diatonic and chromatic.

[Mandryka]

He wrote the Hiller variations in 1907, so I've started to  check out the op 102 piano trio from the same year to see if it's similar. I can say this much - Trio Parnassus don't make it  as much fun as Blomstedt made the Hiller Variations!

[Herman]

Maybe. Today I listened to the Fifth string quartet, and thought, why even say it's in F sharp minor when there are so many accidentals, right from the get go?

Perhaps it's a little less extreme in the Hiller Vars, but it's there allright. So there is the robust 9th variation, Allegro con spirito, but there is a Trio (starting at 23:58 in the video) that is heavily chromatic. So maybe it is part of the character of the Variations, this competition between diatonic and chromatic.

In a way this moving into clean diatonic may be a musical strategy of Reger's. In his perhaps single most dramatically successful chamber music movement, the Larghetto from the Eflat 109 string quartet (guaranteed to bring tears to one's eyes), there is a coda with a simple melody appearing in the cello first, and then in the 1st violin (over plucked notes in the viola). The entire Aflat movement is chockablock with accidentals, but in these bars the slate is virtually clean A flat, as if the clouds disappear.

[Mandryka]

Op 109 is certainly a fabulous quartet, which I've enjoyed since hearing the Vogler performance you put me on to ages ago. I just checked on Spotify and was surprised by how well it's been received - there are even old recordings from Melos and Busch. I found myself drawn in to The Philharmonia Quartett Berlin, a Naxos recording.

I also stumbled across a transfer of this - the op 139 sounds excellent to me



https://open.spotify.com/album/4KrN210nxTV65c0fP7tjrr

[Herman]

The C minor violin sonata, op. 139, is an absolute top work.

Every movement is fabulous.

It's just crazy this doesn't get performed on live stages.

[kyjo]

Op 109 is certainly a fabulous quartet, which I've enjoyed since hearing the Vogler performance you put me on to ages ago. I just checked on Spotify and was surprised by how well it's been received - there are even old recordings from Melos and Busch. I found myself drawn in to The Philharmonia Quartett Berlin, a Naxos recording.

By complete coincidence, I was listening to this quartet tonight in the Vogler Quartet's recording:



....and I found myself eating my previous rather harsh words about Reger's music! This is an absolutely wonderful work - it's typically rigorous in construction, sure, but it is never overly dense in texture and contains some truly memorable ideas. There is a wonderfully dark, anguished recurring passage in the first movement which I found quite compelling. Both the first and third (slow) movements contain passages of hushed modal beauty that are quite affecting, and the finale is a joyous and never-academic celebration of counterpoint. It receives a superbly warm, articulate, and characterful performance by the Vogler Quartet. I'm looking forward to exploring the rest of Reger's SQs - if this E-flat quartet is anything to go by, they may very well contain his finest music....

[Jo498]

IIRC, the first three quartets (op.54, 74) are extremely dense and mostly confirm the prejudice. the late E flat and f# minor are much more "balanced". The Mannheim? on MDG has them all separately, I believe, otherwise there are mostly complete recordings (an older with Drolc Q. on DG and a digital one on cpo with a Swiss quartet).

[JBS]

IIRC, the first three quartets (op.54, 74) are extremely dense and mostly confirm the prejudice. the late E flat and f# minor are much more "balanced". The Mannheim? on MDG has them all separately, I believe, otherwise there are mostly complete recordings (an older with Drolc Q. on DG and a digital one on cpo with a Swiss quartet).

This one, but it seems to be attaining unobtainium status

[Jo498]

I mentioned the Bern mainly because that's what I have in addition to one MDG and the Naxos disc with the Clarinet quintet. The MDG has probably the best sound and the advantage of separate discs if one doesn't want the whole lot.

Supposedly the cpo set is still available directly from jpc.de:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Max-Reger-1873-1916-S%E4mtliche-Streichquartette/hnum/6520223

[Mandryka]

I'd have thought that anyone who enjoys The Schoenberg Quartet's Schoenberg would not feel it was a waste of time to check out their Reger op 121 quartet - which seems to me this afternoon, after an afternoon of dipping in to lots of op 121s, to be the best performance I've heard of it in fact.

How can I put it? It's coherent, fluid, seamless.

[JBS]

I mentioned the Bern mainly because that's what I have in addition to one MDG and the Naxos disc with the Clarinet quintet. The MDG has probably the best sound and the advantage of separate discs if one doesn't want the whole lot.

Supposedly the cpo set is still available directly from jpc.de:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Max-Reger-1873-1916-S%E4mtliche-Streichquartette/hnum/6520223

I have the CPO set and what is probably the same Naxos CD that you have.
I had the Droic Quartet trio on DG, but it seems to have disappeared from my shelves--I haven't been able to find it despite searching my CD holdings more than once.

[Herman]

The advantage of the Mannheim Quartett is there is a single disc with the quartets 4 and 5  -  the best.

I have never had a copy of the Drolc, but I've heard it on youtube and I'm not a fan.

[Mandryka]

quartets 4 and 5  -  the best.

I'm not sure I agree with you. I think there's something very special going on in the op 74 quartet.  Himmlische länge.

[Herman]

I'm not sure I agree with you. I think there's something very special going on in the op 74 quartet.  Himmlische länge.

I used to like op 74 a lot, too.
I just haven't listened to it for a long time, perhaps due to my idea that Reger starts getting extra good with op. 100.

[Jo498]

I have no precise recollection but I dimly recall op.74 and one of op.54 as "monstrous". Extremely long, extremely dense and unmelodic, out-brahmsing Brahms and out-baching Bach as Reger could be often characterised. Not anything I am going to listen to in summer, I am afraid...