Historical Recordings

[George]

I've been buying more and more historical recordings.

I thought it would be a wise idea to start a thread on this board just for them.

Some of my favorites:

Schnabel- Beethoven sonatas on Pearl.

Edwin Fischer- Bach WTC on Pearl.

Cortot- Any Schumann or Chopin recordings (various labels)

Serkin- Mono LvB sonatas on Sony and Music and Arts (has the greatest Waldstein ever, IMO)

[Que]

George, excellent idea to start this thread!
I've edited an old post with resources to explore.


Recommended labels with historical recordings:

Biddulph
On of the very best, recently revived. Transfers: true sound, no manipulation and very modest filtering.
Catalogue: non-vocal, specializes in string recordings.
Recommendation: Cortot playing Schumann (3 discs).

Opus Kura
Transfers are top notch! Very true sound, no manipulation, very modest filtering, and a "full" sound picture, especially noticeable in orchestral recordings. Wonderful...
Catalogue is still modest, but growing. Interestingly, they have a lot of Furtwängler and also Weingartner (Beethoven).

Appian Recordings (APR)
Transfers very good, comparable with Biddulph.
A lot of interesting historical pianists.

Pearl
Also one of the best, although sometimes variable in quality. Transfers in general: true sound, no manipulation, sometimes a bit noisy. They have a very extensive catalogue.

Dutton Laboratories
Not as purist as Pearl or Opus Kura, so relatively less surface noice. Dutton is more "interventionist" and does more "manipulation" of the sound. Whether you like the result is a matter of taste.
Has a nice super budget series.

Tahra
Excellent French label. Specializes in "great conductors" (main source for Furtwängler recordings!, also Jochum, Mengelberg, Ancerl, etc.) Good transfers of recordings that are sometimes licensed from DG or Philips (with much better results), modest filtering.

Testament
Has a contract with EMI to use their archives. Main focus on early tape recordings, but also some 78rpm's. Quiet transfers with very good sound.

Marston Records
Very good transfers, modest filtering. Concentrated on vocal repertoire (French historical opera) and historical pianists (Godowsky, Levy, Hoffman).

Music and Arts
Duplicates the "main historical repertoire" on Pearl and Biddulph, only with more filtering. Distributor of Tahra in the USA. Not my preference, but for those who want to avoid too much surface noise definitely an option. Reports are that M&A transfers have improved in recent times - any comments?

Naxos Historical
Cheapest historical label around. Naxos is a very safe buy for the general collector seeking historical recordings in good transfers with a limited dose of surface noise.

Andante
Andante issues large "thematic" sets with luxurious presentation. Good transfers, with a low level of surface noise/hiss. Approach and quality comparable with Naxos. Some very interesting recordings. Andante has been purchased by Naïve with no own website available anymore.

Doremi
Variable transfers. Interesting catalogue of very rare recordings of famous artists like Heifetz, Richter, etc.

Arbiter
Transfers of variable quality - can sound very rough.
Interesting catalogue: many historical pianists (Horszowski, Feinberg, etc), violinists (Morini, Huberman) and an ongoing Chaliapin Edition!

Preiser
Very good transfers. Most known is their "Lebendige Vergangenheit" series, which is only vocal.
Very large catalogue. Looking for recordings of any historical singer? - Preiser has it!

Also German and interesting little label with vocal recordings:
Hamburger Archiv für Gesangskunst
Can't really comment on the quality of transfers, but their samples sound very good...

Symposium
Transfers comparable with Pearl, true sound, very little filtering.
Catalogue: rather idiosyncratic programming (to say the least), lots of vocal and string music.

Q

[George]

Thanks Que!

I was hoping you'd add that!

I was just on Testaments site (perhaps you could add them to your list?):

http://www.testament.co.uk/shop/

Also, anyone ever order direct from them? How's their stock and delivery speed? 

[George]

Opus Kura
Transfers are top notch! Very true sound, no manipulation, very modest filtering, and a "full" sound picture, especially noticeable in orchestral recordings. Wonderful...
Catalogue is still modest, but growing. Interestingly, they have a lot of Furtwängler and also Weingartner (Beethoven).

Got the Casals Bach Suites recently, will report once I've heard it.

Appian Recordings (APR)
Transfers very good, comparable with Biddulph.
A lot of interesting historical pianists.

I've got some of the Fiorentino CD's. I suspect the original sound wasn't so hot on the Rach Preludes. 

Pearl
Also one of the best, although sometimes variable in quality. Transfers in general: true sound, no manipulation, sometimes a bit noisy. They have a very extensive catalogue.

As you know, I like this label. If only their Cd's came with a bottle of Advil. 

Music and Arts
Duplicates the "main historical repertoire" on Pearl and Biddulph, only with more filtering. Distributor of Tahra in the USA. Not my preference, but for those who want to avoid too much surface noise definitely an option. Reports are that M&A transfers have improved in recent times - any comments?

The Serkin LvB 2 CD set sounds really bad on some performances, but luckily the sound is accepable on the stellar Waldstein.
I'm hoping the Schnabel/Schubert set by MOT is done well.

Naxos Historical
Cheapest historical label around. Naxos is a very safe buy for the general collector seeking historical recordings in good transfers with a limited dose of surface noise.

I agree, a great middle of the road choice. MOT does nice work for them.

Andante
The most expensive historical label around.

How's their sound? I own nothing. 

[Que]

Got the Casals Bach Suites recently, will report once I've heard it.

Ha! I wondered about that. Yes, please report on the transfer but also what you think of the performance - after just getting the Bylsma and all.

How's their sound? I own nothing. 

Andante does good transfers - full tone, natural sound. But very "clean" - so very little surface noise. It varies from one issue to another, but sometimes the result is too constricted/"boxy".
I think it compares best to the sound on Naxos Historical - but just a lot more expensive!

Q

[SimonGodders]

Ha! I wondered about that. Yes, please report on the transfer but also what you think of the performance - after just getting the Bylsma and all.
Andante does good transfers - full tone, natural sound. But very "clean" - so very little surface noise. It varies from one issue to another, but sometimes the result is too constricted/"boxy".
I think it compares best to the sound on Naxos Historical - but just a lot more expensive!

Q

And much of the cost is probably set aside for the lavish presentation! Had the first Chopin set for a while, but found it was beginning to duplicate much of what I was acquiring. Excellent beginner set for newbies, if you can afford it!

[vandermolen]

Harty conducts Walton Symphony 1

Heward conducts Moeran symphony

Honegger conducts Honneger Liturgique Symphony

Furtwangler conducts Bruckner Symphony 9

Kajanus conducts Sibelius "Tapiola"

Boult conducts Vaughan Williams Symphony 6 (Decca)

Barbirolli conducts Bax Symphony 3

Elgar conducts Elgar Symphony 2

Barbirolli conducts Alwyn Symphony 1 and 2

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Ha! I wondered about that. Yes, please report on the transfer but also what you think of the performance - after just getting the Bylsma and all.
Andante does good transfers - full tone, natural sound. But very "clean" - so very little surface noise. It varies from one issue to another, but sometimes the result is too constricted/"boxy".
I think it compares best to the sound on Naxos Historical - but just a lot more expensive!

Q

Well, we've touched on this before, Q, but I continue to disagree about Andante's transfers.

I have three of their box sets (totalling nine CDs) and I hear nothing "boxy" in their sound restoration, especially piano recordings which sound marvellously ringing and full.

Yes Andante is expensive but not any more than other high quality historical labels. It's just that for some reason they favor bulky box sets! Which inflates the price.

I've always favored the likes of Biddulph and Andante to Pearl for the fine treatment they bestow on their transfers. You can hear the TLC. Not that Pearl is bad in any way shape or form (hey, I grew up on them! )! But to me high quality transfers minus the scratchiness is not an oxymoron anymore.

(Although I admit there might be a mitigating factor in all this...I spent so much time with Pearl initially that I may have burned myself out just a bit on extra scratchiness. Hence my admiration for Marston (Biddulph, Naxos), Andante, and the like. )

[Que]

Well, we've touched on this before, Q, but I continue to disagree about Andante's transfers.

I have three of their box sets (totalling nine CDs) and I hear nothing "boxy" in their sound restoration, especially piano recordings which sound marvellously ringing and full.

Yes Andante is expensive but not any more than other high quality historical labels. It's just that for some reason they favor bulky box sets! Which inflates the price.

I've always favored the likes of Biddulph and Andante to Pearl for the fine treatment they bestow on their transfers. You can hear the TLC. Not that Pearl is bad in any way shape or form (hey, I grew up on them! )! But to me high quality transfers minus the scratchiness is not an oxymoron anymore.

(Although I admit there might be a mitigating factor in all this...I spent so much time with Pearl initially that I may have burned myself out just a bit on extra scratchiness. Hence my admiration for Marston (Biddulph, Naxos), Andante, and the like. )

Donwyn, please let me clarify my opinion on Andante.
BTW, I don't recall a previous discussion, but you're undoubtedly right!

I have six of their sets: Stokowski/Philadelphia; Stokowski/Wagner; Szigeti; Backhaus; LVB's Fidelio by Böhm & Furtwängler and the set with Schubert chamber music. And like I said: their transfers are good, and by "good" I don't mean acceptable or OK, but good. So I actually agree with your description of "high quality transfers".

Transfers are uniformly filtered to a low level of hiss. And like I said: IMO the success of their approach varies - found examples of that even within a single set. Sometimes a encountered a too constricted sound (to my taste) and preferred a transfer on Biddulph or others.

Finally, I have no quibble with Andante's price. But it actually is higher than Naxos' - which I compared to. Do you rate Andante's transfers as better than Naxos BTW?
So, no problem with that: Biddulph and Pearl are of the same price level - though Andante initially was full price instead of mid price.

Q

[Dancing Divertimentian]

BTW, I don't recall a previous discussion, but you're undoubtedly right!

Apologies, Q, our previous discussion was on the 'old board' some time ago. So long ago, in fact, it's no wonder you don't recall it!

Sometimes a encountered a too constricted sound (to my taste) and preferred a transfer on Biddulph or others.

But I think the same could be said of many competing historical labels. One transfer on one label might not equal that of another label but it really goes both ways. It depends on who gets what source material. One label has X as their source material and another label has Y. And sometimes labels intermingle sources X and Y on the same disc. It really can get dizzying keeping up with it all but it certainly is fun!

On a micro level, Andante may very well lag behind just a bit in that some labels employ the likes of Marson and certain other individuals who are known for having a heart for their job. And this "one man approach" can pay big dividends. But, for me, for what Andante accomplishes with their transfers they are miles ahead of the game, especially when compared to 'ye old days' when labels like Andante, Marston/Naxos, Arbiter, etc... weren't around. I remember when pirates used to rule the roost. They were more numerous than the Marstons were by far! Now things have leveled off a bit and it's nice to see such a bounty of quality transfer work from official sources.

Finally, I have no quible with Andante's price. But it actually is higher than Naxos' - which I compared to. Do you rate Andante's transfers as better than Naxos BTW?
So, no problem with that: Biddulph and Pearl are of the same price level - though Andante initially was full price instead of mid price.

Yeah, Naxos' prices can't be beat. Andante really should try to be a little more competitive in that regard.

As far as comparisons, generally I've found Andante's work equal to that of Marston's work on Naxos. It's something intangible, really, something to do with the level of tender loving care that's audible in the transfer process. I hear what sounds like a high level of TLC in Andante's transfer work, which earns high marks for me. 

But hey, Pearl is quality stuff, too! No quibbles there!

[Que]

Apologies, Q, our previous discussion was on the 'old board' some time ago. So long ago, in fact, it's no wonder you don't recall it!

Only happy to return to this topic, donwyn. 

But I think the same could be said of many competing historical labels. One transfer on one label might not equal that of another label but it really goes both ways. It depends on who gets what source material. One label has X as their source material and another label has Y. And sometimes labels intermingle sources X and Y on the same disc. It really can get dizzying keeping up with it all but it certainly is fun!

It certainly is fun and dizzying indeed - as some of the forum members who got interested in these recordings have already discovered... Well, that means we have a lot to talk about!

On a micro level, Andante may very well lag behind just a bit in that some labels employ the likes of Marson and certain other individuals who are known for having a heart for their job. And this "one man approach" can pay big dividends. But, for me, for what Andante accomplishes with their transfers they are miles ahead of the game, especially when compared to 'ye old days' when labels like Andante, Marston/Naxos, Arbiter, etc... weren't around. I remember when pirates used to rule the roost. They were more numerous than the Marstons were by far! Now things have leveled off a bit and it's nice to see such a bounty of quality transfer work from official sources.

Yes, we have nowadays a real luxury problem: spoilt for choice with sometimes three or four good transfers available of a particular recording! Unbelievable..

As far as comparisons, generally I've found Andante's work equal to that of Marston's work on Naxos. It's something intangible, really, something to do with the level of tender loving care that's audible in the transfer process. I hear what sounds like a high level of TLC in Andante's transfer work, which earns high marks for me. 

We agree: Andante and Marston on Naxos are indeed equals.

But hey, Pearl is quality stuff, too! No quibbles there!

Well, I like their straight forward approach, but in many instances I chose a transfer on Biddulph, Appian or Opus Kura instead. Opus Kura is relatively "new"(ish) label which transfers I really like!

Q

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Yes, we have nowadays a real luxury problem: spoilt for choice with sometimes three or four good transfers available of a particular recording! Unbelievable..

Agree, Q, the proliferation of quality historical labels in recent years is staggering! But I'm not complaining. Documenting the past is essential. Thanks to these quality independent labels we have easy access.

Opus Kura is relatively "new"(ish) label which transfers I really like!

Now I could kick myself! I had the opportunity not long ago to pick up some Opus Kura discs for cheap but passed...because I hadn't heard of the label!

Oh, well...

Thanks for the heads up, Q. I will be on the lookout for Opus Kura in the future!

[George]

Thanks for the heads up, Q. I will be on the lookout for Opus Kura in the future!

The Casals CD's of the Bach suites are great on Opus Kura! 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

The Casals CD's of the Bach suites are great on Opus Kura! 

Much obliged, George!

[Que]

Agree, Q, the proliferation of quality historical labels in recent years is staggering! But I'm not complaining. Documenting the past is essential. Thanks to these quality independent labels we have easy access.

Now I could kick myself! I had the opportunity not long ago to pick up some Opus Kura discs for cheap but passed...because I hadn't heard of the label!

Oh, well...

Thanks for the heads up, Q. I will be on the lookout for Opus Kura in the future!

Yes, please try them. Their sound is different from the others: it has the immediacy and "purist" quality of Pearl but at the same time it's much firmer in the lows. Some say it approches the original sound of the 78rpm's best. Will be very interested in your opinion!

BTW Edited my comment on Andante. You did have a good point there: "most expensive label around" was much to short measured...and outdated on the price issue.

Q

[Que]

I thought this might be interesting - it is posted on rmcr.
Does anyone have experience with issues by Pristine Classical?

Q


"I'm pleased today to announce the launch of the first Pristine Audio Extended Range (XR) recordings which, using a combination of our existing Natural Sound techniques and new targeted audio extraction methods, has succeeded for perhaps the first time in restoring the 'lost frequencies' from pre-ffrr electric 78s between approx. 6kHz and ~12kHz or higher.
Despite the huge selective amplification required to achieve this, the results are nothing short of phenomenal. We currently have six examples posted on our homepage, alongside further details about the technique.

Later this week we will be adding the first five of a series of recordings originally released by Music and Arts of America (and now OOP) - ex-acetate 30's and 40's recordings made by Szigeti, Furtwangler and Toscanini, playing music by Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart and R. Strauss. These recordings have all been restored using our new XR technology.

How does it work ?

The frequencies are there - they always were, usually so buried in the background noise as to be useless. But if you know where to look, how to look, and how to extract them, they can be restored alongside the rest of the 'regular' audio. If that appears a little thin on the detail, forgive me - I don't wish to give away too many secrets for the time being. Suffice to say we are not using any method of artificial synthesis or regeneration to create anything here - what you hear on the examples posted is what's come off the shellac discs themselves, carefully amplified back to appropriate levels and largely clean of hiss and noise."

Andrew Rose - Pristine Classical

[George]

Well, I have the Fischer WTC they did (CD1) and I don't remember them being superior to Pearl, however I am very curious about the Schnabel Schubert Impromptus and may check them out soon. I'll let you know. I'll also revisit the Fischer WTC.   

[Todd]

Here's an historical no-brainer as far as I'm concerned:



Hearing Bartok play his own music is enlightening, even if the sound needs some further work (if it can be done).

[Que]

Here's an historical no-brainer as far as I'm concerned:

Hearing Bartok play his own music is enlightening, even if the sound needs some further work (if it can be done).

Nice!
I see it's recorded in 1940, so Szigeti was still in his prime - correct?

Q

[Todd]

I see it's recorded in 1940, so Szigeti was still in his prime - correct?

Sure sounds that way.