Poll

Which do you like more?

Star Trek
Star Wars
I like them both equally
I hate them both equally
Grow up, you nerds
Dancing with the Stars

Author Topic: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls  (Read 23431 times)

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Offline Grazioso

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #220 on: September 27, 2011, 08:50:36 AM »
Except Lucas himself thinks otherwise if I have understood. For Lucas it doesn't matter what we think.

And from that perspective, it doesn't matter to me what Lucas thinks. Once the movies are released, they begin a life of their own, as does all art put before the public. Lucas is surely smart enough to understand (and desire) that viewers interpret and judge things for themselves.

Quote
Anyway, I shouldn't waste my life here. You have even less reason as you don't even like the movies that much. I mean, I'd never write much online about movies I don't care about (for example LOTR).

On the contrary, I do like the Star Wars movies, specifically the original trilogy. Otherwise, I would not spend the time discussing them and asking questions about them. I am emphatically not, however, someone who believes Lucas can do no wrong or that the Star Wars films are the highest examples of film. And I certainly think the second trilogy has terrible flaws.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

eyeresist

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #221 on: September 28, 2011, 04:17:59 PM »
Except Lucas himself thinks otherwise if I have understood. For Lucas it doesn't matter what we think.

Artists always think their most recent work is their best, I've noticed.
 

karlhenning

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #222 on: September 28, 2011, 05:48:23 PM »
Artists always think their most recent work is their best, I've noticed.

I know many artists, and I notice no such matter. By no means do I always think that my own recent work is my best.

ibanezmonster

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #223 on: September 28, 2011, 06:05:45 PM »
Artists always think their most recent work is their best, I've noticed.
This sometimes happens with non-classical musicians trying to promote their new albums...

eyeresist

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #224 on: September 28, 2011, 06:08:00 PM »
I know many artists, and I notice no such matter. By no means do I always think that my own recent work is my best.

Well, it's something I've noticed in interviews with various people. I guess it's not universal.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #225 on: September 29, 2011, 07:04:08 AM »
On the contrary, I do like the Star Wars movies, specifically the original trilogy. Otherwise, I would not spend the time discussing them and asking questions about them.

Good that you cleared that because your posts definitely don't indicate that.

I am emphatically not, however, someone who believes Lucas can do no wrong or that the Star Wars films are the highest examples of film. And I certainly think the second trilogy has terrible flaws.

Of course Lucas can do wrong. He says as a director, 100 good decisions are needed to compensate 3 bad decisions. It's just that I can forgive his mistakes to a certain degree because he is trying so ambitious, visionary and complex things with his movies. Actually it's hard to say where his mistakes are because he is a pioneer. Future generations will perfect what Lucas improved or started.

Flaws and mistakes don't mean a piece of art can't be enjoyed and appreciated. Bad attitute and persnickety mental state ruin the experience. Just relax, eat your popcorn and enjoy the ride!  ;)
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Offline Grazioso

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #226 on: September 29, 2011, 08:26:34 AM »
Good that you cleared that because your posts definitely don't indicate that.

Of course Lucas can do wrong. He says as a director, 100 good decisions are needed to compensate 3 bad decisions. It's just that I can forgive his mistakes to a certain degree because he is trying so ambitious, visionary and complex things with his movies. Actually it's hard to say where his mistakes are because he is a pioneer. Future generations will perfect what Lucas improved or started.

Flaws and mistakes don't mean a piece of art can't be enjoyed and appreciated. Bad attitute and persnickety mental state ruin the experience. Just relax, eat your popcorn and enjoy the ride!  ;)

You missed what I wrote earlier: the more you love something, the more you should be able to recognize, admit, and discuss its flaws. And that's because a) you've spent enough time with it to really study and ponder it and b) because you care enough to treat it fairly and objectively, which takes more effort than just offering up a shallow "It's awesome!" or "It sucks!"

And one might say a piece of art is successful inasmuch as it gets you to think about both it and yourself, regardless of how well it conforms to any aesthetic criteria.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

karlhenning

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #227 on: September 29, 2011, 08:32:47 AM »
Of course Lucas can do wrong. He says as a director, 100 good decisions are needed to compensate 3 bad decisions. It's just that I can forgive his mistakes to a certain degree because he is trying so ambitious, visionary and complex things with his movies. Actually it's hard to say where his mistakes are because he is a pioneer.

Somehow I am reminded of George W Bush in one of the debates. Yeah, I might have made a mistake or two, but nothing major.

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #228 on: September 29, 2011, 08:41:45 AM »
Somehow I am reminded of George W Bush in one of the debates. Yeah, I might have made a mistake or two, but nothing major.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3TsWRpLrk#t=2m22s
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #229 on: September 30, 2011, 02:12:39 AM »
You missed what I wrote earlier: the more you love something, the more you should be able to recognize, admit, and discuss its flaws. And that's because

Maybe I missed but it seems we both have misunderstood each other.

a) you've spent enough time with it to really study and ponder it and

My opinion is that if someone spents time with Star Wars she/he will get to know about Lucas' style as an filmmaker and will understood why the sounds of lightsabers and the color/shape of the ears of an creature in the background are just as important to Lucas as the performances of actors in leading parts. I think one must agree at least partially with Lucas in order to enjoy his films in the first place, otherwise it's hard to appreciate what he does. Same goes with other filmmakers too, of course.

b) because you care enough to treat it fairly and objectively, which takes more effort than just offering up a shallow "It's awesome!" or "It sucks!"

In my opinion if you care about something you use "friendly" language when describing it. So, a person who likes Star Wars might says

"Jar Jar is a bit annoying in some scenes but I recognize the comic value of the character and I give credit for all the pioneering cgi work done."

On the other hand a "Prequel Trilogy Hater (PTH)" might say something like:

"Jar Jar is one of the most annoying characters in any movie I have seen. Lucas has lost it. He doesn't have a clue about what is cool and what isn't."

My point is that "treating objectively" still gives you opportunity to use words that correctly reveal your true stance.
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DavidW

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #230 on: September 30, 2011, 02:53:39 AM »
There are many people that enjoy the prequel trilogy but feel that Jar-Jar is the worst character in the Star Wars films.  You should take that as a consensus decision and move on Poju.  So many dislike Jar Jar that Lucas marginalized him in the other prequel movies.  Oh and stop with your one true scotsman fallacies.  People like the movies on their own terms, they are not fans only if they like it specifically your way.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #231 on: September 30, 2011, 03:00:03 AM »
There are many people that enjoy the prequel trilogy but feel that Jar-Jar is the worst character in the Star Wars films.  You should take that as a consensus decision and move on Poju.  So many dislike Jar Jar that Lucas marginalized him in the other prequel movies.  Oh and stop with your one true scotsman fallacies.  People like the movies on their own terms, they are not fans only if they like it specifically your way.

"move on"
"stop with your one true scotsman fallacies"
"People like the movies on their own terms"

Ok, everyone can like the movies on their own terms expect I. That's what annoys me, my opinion is never equal with the opinions of others.
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DavidW

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #232 on: September 30, 2011, 03:58:52 AM »
Ok, everyone can like the movies on their own terms expect I. That's what annoys me, my opinion is never equal with the opinions of others.

Your opinion regarding the movies is valid.  Your opinion regarding the fans, that is to say your opinion that people that are critical of the prequel trilogy are not Star Wars fans is not valid.  Very simple distinction.

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #233 on: September 30, 2011, 04:01:58 AM »
My opinion is that if someone spents time with Star Wars she/he will get to know about Lucas' style as an filmmaker and will understood why the sounds of lightsabers and the color/shape of the ears of an creature in the background are just as important to Lucas as the performances of actors in leading parts. I think one must agree at least partially with Lucas in order to enjoy his films in the first place, otherwise it's hard to appreciate what he does. Same goes with other filmmakers too, of course.

It can be interesting and helpful to know what an artist intended, what their thought processes were, but ultimately once the art is released to the public, viewers will bring their own perspectives and concerns to the table.

Quote
In my opinion if you care about something you use "friendly" language when describing it. So, a person who likes Star Wars might says

"Jar Jar is a bit annoying in some scenes but I recognize the comic value of the character and I give credit for all the pioneering cgi work done."

On the other hand a "Prequel Trilogy Hater (PTH)" might say something like:

"Jar Jar is one of the most annoying characters in any movie I have seen. Lucas has lost it. He doesn't have a clue about what is cool and what isn't."

My point is that "treating objectively" still gives you opportunity to use words that correctly reveal your true stance.

You're not just using different tones in those examples, you're saying substantially different things. I've enjoyed the original trilogy since it was first released. Jar Jar is a horrible idea all around*, and the second trilogy is a big step backwards. I feel no conflict in expressing those views. I would only moderate my language if I were actually conversing with Mr. Lucas, in deference to his feelings.

Ok, everyone can like the movies on their own terms expect I. That's what annoys me, my opinion is never equal with the opinions of others.

If you're going to voice a minority opinion on a discussion forum, you have to be prepared for dissent. Best thing you can do is either shrug it off or mount a stronger defense.

* Interesting that, iirc, no one here has mentioned that more than a few critics have seen Jar Jar as a racist stereotype.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

karlhenning

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #234 on: September 30, 2011, 04:41:31 AM »
Poju, you don't really think Jar Jar is funny, do you?

karlhenning

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #235 on: September 30, 2011, 04:42:44 AM »
Just as a point of comparison, the line I'd rather kiss a Wookkiiee is funny. Not Marx Bros class, but funny ; )

Offline DavidRoss

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #236 on: September 30, 2011, 05:07:18 AM »
Just as a point of comparison, the line I'd rather kiss a Wookkiiee is funny. Not Marx Bros class, but funny ; )
Agreed.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal.  I value my mechanic's opinion about automotive matters more than I value my accountant's, and value the latter's opinion about deferred compensation plans more than I value the mechanic's.
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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #237 on: September 30, 2011, 05:45:19 AM »
Poju, you don't really think Jar Jar is funny, do you?

Believe or not, I do find Jar Jar funny. Your comparison line is of course funny too.  ;)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Online k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls
« Reply #238 on: October 26, 2021, 03:24:33 PM »
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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